Explosives and "Safe Haven" CDL License

[displayfireworks1]

I am preparing to re-certify my HAZMAT endorsement on my CDL. I live in the State of Pennsylvania. This is a page from the PA HAZMAT CDL manual. In one of my previous videos I talked about a “Safe Haven” when leaving a vehicle of explosives unattended overnight. While this is listed in the Pennsylvania CDL HAZMAT training manual, I do not believe the ATF necessarily agrees with this. I would be curious how many other State driver license manuals address this “Safe Haven”.
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[Salutecake]

Dave this is a really good topic. So on the Federal level, the DOT writes the regulations that apply across the whole country.
However ---- Some State have their own version or regulations.
Now we add the ATF factor in with their rules and regulations.
For some of us here, we are not in commerce, so these laws (PA Dot) in a sense do not apply to us so what rules do apply to us?

I totally agree with you the the ATF does not genereally agree with these rules.

Can I get your thoughts on this scenerio Dave? As a hobbyist that lives 2 to 4 hours from a supplier, let's say FireA that is in the central part of PA. Can I as a hobbyist, go out on a Friday and pick up my order, drive back to my property (consignee) have someone watch it over night (that can follow the Attendong Parked Vehicle section. My end goal is to be able to wake up in the morning and start setting up without having to make a round trip of 4 to 8 hours.

I know the ATF has a different view on this, but if you had a CDL and went by the article above, it seems I would be incompliance with the state rules even as a hobbyist, or even if I hied a person with a PA CDL to do the transportation thing for me.

My last observation unless it is mentioned elsewhere, it does not seem to reference you knowing the ATF regulation or even the federal dot regulations but only to comply with the above regulation.

[displayfireworks1]

I renewed my Pennsylvania CDL HAZMAT today. Guess what the question about explosives and "Safe Haven" was on the test. Of course I answered a "Safe Haven" is the only place the truck with explosives is allow to be unattended. The reality is, that is probably an incorrect answer. I am going to throw this video on my Facebook also to see what if any responses I get on it there also.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmIfLtDEano
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[Salutecake]

Thanks for the video Dave! Such Gray area's. The sad part is if you interpret some of these rules on your own, even with the best of interest, you can still end up in trouble. Also, even in the ATF variance paper work, I can understand why companies won't get involved in that, it seems like your only lookng for trouble.

[Arclight]

1. I believe most of the DOT regs come down to whether you are required to be "placarded." This usually means quantity, type of goods or whether you are "in commerce." In California for instance, I can transport up to 1,000lbs of 1.4 or 1.5 material in commerce without placarding.

In theory, any amount of 1.3 or 1.1 would trigger placarding according to state law here. In other states, y'all get away with transporting your personal 1.3 un-placarded if it's for non-commercial purposes. In the past, ATF didn't care that much about DOT rules if ATF rules were followed and DOT mostly considered "in commerce" to mean "being paid to haul someone else's stuff." Now the DOT considers anything that makes money for you or someone else to be "in commerce" and ATF cooperates more closely with them.

2. Once you are running with placards, you will needs CDL with hazmat, PHMSA permits, DOT inspections, drug testing, DOT physical, often state DOT permits, and typically $5M in insurance. For 1.1, you typically have to come up with a route map and stopping points. I'm not 100% sure if the "safe haven" thing exists anymore either.

3. Overnight storage is yet another reason to consider getting simple magazine.

[displayfireworks1]

Interesting read and some scenarios that include fireworks. Some are still not 100% clear.
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[displayfireworks1]

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[Salutecake]

Thanks for that Dave - some good read here.

[BMoore]

Very interesting reading. I'm glad I'm not in commerce. Thinking about all the "what if" scenarios will drive you crazy on both the DOT and ATF side. Every time I ready these things my first thought is, you had better never have to use the bathroom. When nature calls, what are you supposed to do? Even if you make it to the shoot site, you don't have time to go potty because transportation has ended and ATF says you can't leave material in the truck! LOL

[displayfireworks1]

Even though we as ATF licensed pyrotechnic hobbyist are not in commerce, we still need to follow much of this. The objective is to prevent theft and/or not endanger the public until the public or someone gets to enjoy the product in the air somewhere between when you purchased it and it finally makes it in the air. As with most things and situations. Behaving as a reasonable and prudent person would in a similar situation goes a long way.

[BMoore]

Even though we as ATF licensed pyrotechnic hobbyist are not in commerce, we still need to follow much of this. The objective is to prevent theft and/or not endanger the public until the public or someone gets to enjoy the product in the air somewhere between when you purchased it and it finally makes it in the air. As with most things and situations. Behaving as a reasonable and prudent person would in a similar situation goes a long way.

Yes, acting with reasonable due care is really key. I tell people treat 1.3 fireworks like your kids. They need to be under your supervision at all time or an officially designated baby sitter (employee possessor). Only exception is when they are in school or daycare (approved storage). When you read the regs it seems like an agent will pop up out of the bushes if you so much as blink.

[displayfireworks1]

Yes, acting with reasonable due care is really key. I tell people treat 1.3 fireworks like your kids. They need to be under your supervision at all time or an officially designated baby sitter (employee possessor). Only exception is when they are in school or daycare (approved storage). When you read the regs it seems like an agent will pop up out of the bushes if you so much as blink.

Great analogy

[Salutecake]

LOL Nice! BMoore