MJG Initiators with Visco Shroud

[markcockrell]

Anyone care to share their experience (good or bad) with the visco shroud initiators? I've read that the clip-on igniters can sometimes have a higher failure rate (I recall Dave saying that the fuses are "designed to resist side ignition"), and clearly everyone seems to agree that poking is the way to go for consumer products. But, when you're working with an all-volunteer group of novices helping set things up, it's hard to resist the simplicity of a clip-on. So easy, even a Marine can do it! (it's a joke...my best friend is a Marine...don't hurt me, please) I'm wondering if the shroud is a reasonable combination of the two? The Ignite website says you can use up to 10 MJGs on a cue (not sure I trust that, but I plan to buy some and test it myself), so for those of us who don't yet have a thousand cues available, that's very appealing. What say you all? Should I just admit the inevitable, get a brass awl and start poking, or can I get good results with the shrouds and some Magic Tape?

[topshelfpyro]

Someone with hands on should reply hopefully, i've read they work really well. You will eventually want to poke everything for the instant ignition, possibly even poking cans. All I know is clip ons suck. But there are some that say they never have problems with them.

PGI convention is Aug 12-18th this year in Oshkosh, WI. You should maybe try and go to one some year. 24/7 pyro up "close" and personal. Good luck with the next chapter of e-firing

[Smily0]

I had not seen these until I went to the training day for the Pro company I just started working for. The lady presenting the course (family owns the company) said they helped in testing and developing these MJG. They initially had issues with ignition, but after reviewing high speed camera video and photos, they found the root issue. They were taping the clear shroud tightly around the fuse; this caused pressure to build and the fire would simply go out the back side of the connector instead of lighting the visco. Their standard practice is to cut the visco fuse at a slight angle to reveal more powder and then insert the fuse leaving a slight airgap between the fuse and initiator head. Then, it is only taped on the MJG side of the connection, leaving the bottom side open. She said they haven't had a single failure to ignite since changing to this method. I bought a couple boxes and fired about 50 cakes this way and only had two failures, but I can see both were my fault on leaving too big of a gap.

It looks like I already deleted my other pictures, but I found this one on my phone. This is about the largest gap I would leave, slightly smaller would be ideal, and then tape the top side to the product.
6745

That said, I still prefer to punch and install into the lift charge when possible. I admit the shroud is much faster on the cakes, and timing doesn't have to be super precise in a non-musical, but I still like the older way better. You can also easily remove the clear shroud and stick the head into a lift charge making these dual purpose. I'd prefer to use the red shroud when possible, but the company I'm working for ordered them without shrouds this year to get them delivered in time and will likely continue this way in the future.

[Engineer Cat]

NEVER insert a match head into a lift charge with the shroud removed.

I bought the visco shrouds one year. They were OK. I poke everything now. If I have an item to small to poke I use a cut piece of straw slipped over the red shroud and then insert the fuse and tape.

I also have these but they are hit and miss also. 6746

[Robbro097]

I had to use the visco shroud mjg this year on majority of my stuff because its what was available. But i trimmed the shroud to about the size of traditional shroud poked and inserted like i would normal ematch. I did have to light a handful of of fuses for finale and in that limited sample size with thicker fuse than whats on most cakes they worked perfect. But poking and inserting match shroud is much easier and quicker. Poking may look like a slow process but when u get rolling u can really knock em out quick.

[Bitzan]

If you want to send me your address I am happy to send you a few to try. They seem to work well. Being relatively new and on a budget I am always short cues despite expanding my cobra setup each year. For finales I hand fuse a few racks of shells and use the Visco shroud initiators to start the string. There are certainly other ways to accomplish my goal but as you point out they seemed like a good compromise in certain situations.

[FWGuy]

I have used the shrouded initiators for the past 4 years with a 99% success rate. It comes down to ensuring the shroud and the device visco fuse are mated properly and taped to prevent movement - I typically do this myself and have others move and lift stuff ;). Going forward however will be changing this due to upgrading my firing system and shifting to 1.4 pro items. Go with what you are comfortable with.

[MontanaMike]

It looks like those visco shroud initiators should work the same as a standard red shroud in a poked-cake situation. Is this true, or is a guy better off going with standard-shroud initiators for the products that are poked?

Or is trimming off the end of the visco shroud to make it shorter a good idea? (Or even necessary?)

And, this may be a silly question but is there any "risk" to using the visco shroud initiators with faster fuse? (Risk of non-ignition?) I can't imagine there would be a problem with that, but you don't know if you don't ask, right?

I use chained fuse for all of my finale product so I'm excited to use the shrouded initiators for those, if not everything else.

[PYRODAN]

I'm a 2 man crew, (3 if my kid shows up) So I feel your pain on the set up. Only thing I can say is start poking early. I wire all my cakes a week before. I take a week or so off for the 4th every year. So depending on how many helpers I have on set up day, it makes set up easier.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Poke. Poke. Poke again. Keep on poking. Using shrouds to visco is plain silly IMHO. You gain absolutely nothing as far as time prepping cakes, and you create a potential point of failure if the initiator doesn't light the visco. Poking cakes is the easiest thing on the planet to do. Don't overthink it. Buy the brass awl and get to poking. You'll hate yourself for not doing it sooner.

[FWGuy]

Rick...you have me convinced...time to poke, poke, and poke some more ;).

[Salutecake]

Agreed Rick!