Post labor day show assessment

[PyroKing31]

Hey folks, did a labor day show at the lake and decided to do something different. I individually poked 40 1.75 cans and 30 T-connector 3" shells . I ran the wires through a drilled hole but did not loop them to try and not have the wires rip out of the modules or disrupt other shells.

Of the 70 shells I had 10 not go off. Some with obviously ripped wires, some with the wires completely gone and some that are still intact and may have been continuity errors thrown by things getting jostled.

I am looking for tips on how you guys are individually cueing shells and preventing tear out and disruption as I hate having things not send. For reference I am using a Biluscon system. I am not looking for any comments on purchasing another system. That is not helpful information.

Thanks in Advance

[Birdman]

Did you wire any of them in series? That's the only time I ever had an issue. Apparently there is enough delay that the first shell will break the circuit before all of them fire. I believe I wired 5 in series and the last one never went off.

[PyroKing31]

I had several of them doubled and ironically the 10 nishikis that were the finale were all doubled and all went perfectly. I am not sure if any of the ones that didnt go were doubled on cues. I didnt script it that tightly. It was kinda just thrown together in a way. loosely scripted.

[BMoore]

When you say you ran the wires through a drilled hole but didn't loop them, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Were the wires tied off in some way or free to pull through the hole and thus pull the module? What I do is instead of drilling a hole to tie off I just put a nail in the top rail of my rack. Usually one nail for about every 3 guns in the row. I then just pull the wire taunt and give it a couple of wraps around the nail. This secures the wire and also pulls the wires down away from the muzzles. On the 3" shells did you tuck the quickmatch and T-Connector into the guns after you wired them? Quickmatch can easily tear or rip through wires so you want as little of that exposed as possible.

[PyroKing31]

Gotcha, the I fed the wire through the hole but it did not make a loop and I suspect pulled on the module and or other wires. I have seen the nail idea but used holes to avoid stabby things on top of racks.

The 3" shells are crown pyro brand and have about a 8 inch T-connector leader for that firing method. I figure 8 wrapped the wire on the T-connector, taped it and dropped it in the tube. I ran the wires sequentially over each other so that in the firing order they should not have disturbed eachother.

[Birdman]

Gotcha, the I fed the wire through the hole but it did not make a loop and I suspect pulled on the module and or other wires. I have seen the nail idea but used holes to avoid stabby things on top of racks.

If I understand correctly there was nothing to keep the wire from pulling on the mod if the wire wasn't secured somewhere between the shell and the mod. How did you poke your shells, bottom or side? Also, did you tape or secure the wire to the shell in any way?

[Arclight]

Did you wire any of them in series? That's the only time I ever had an issue. Apparently there is enough delay that the first shell will break the circuit before all of them fire. I believe I wired 5 in series and the last one never went off.

I was told by the manufacturer of some e-match equipped blasting cartridges that they need to be within 0.5 ohm of each other in order to reliably fire in series. Otherwise, you will get the lower-resistance e-match firing and not the other ones. So it might pay to check them out with a multimeter before installing.

[WithReport]

I suspect some of the wires pulled on modules or other wires and caused some connection issues.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeM6dkzD_w0


And yes, you want the igniters to have similar resistance for the reasons @Arclight mentioned. If you were just doing two matches, it might have been better to run them in parallel. You loose ability for continuity checks with the system, but you have two independent circuits.


WPA is hosting a discussion this weekend "Practical Tips for Using Ematches and Wires When Planning a Show": https://www.westernpyro.org/seminars?fbclid=IwAR3z7yiJRMwhHmd4izxAmAIiwnFhI_PQ QPqE9qF5TwS7rLP6oE1QcW2Q4xY

[PyroKing31]

Birdman Bottom of the 1.75 and taped to secure the wire to the side. And yes the wire was not secured. I think this is the majority of the problem.

Arclight I am using generic Chinese e-matches not MJG so resistance could definitely be a part of it.

WithReport Thanks for the video and the link to the WPA discussion.

[Birdman]

PyroKing31, If you taped the wire to the side then the wire would be pulled by the shell. The amount of force applied to the wire would depend on how securely the wire taped to the shell.

Arclight, I was told about that issue before. I probably won't wire shells in series again. I'll just fast fuse......problem solved! Assuming I can still get fast fuse.

[PyroKing31]

PyroKing31, If you taped the wire to the side then the wire would be pulled by the shell. The amount of force applied to the wire would depend on how securely the wire taped to the shell.

Arclight, I was told about that issue before. I probably won't wire shells in series again. I'll just fast fuse......problem solved! Assuming I can still get fast fuse.

Yea It was magic tape so it was sticky for sure. A lot of wires were left behind so not all of them pulled. Definitely gonna have to figure out parallel, series is just so easy, just stick more wires in the terminal.

[BMoore]

Yea It was magic tape so it was sticky for sure. A lot of wires were left behind so not all of them pulled. Definitely gonna have to figure out parallel, series is just so easy, just stick more wires in the terminal.

Sounds like you have parallel and series confused. If you have two e-matches both of which you wire directly into the terminal that is parallel wiring. Series wiring you'd have one wire of each match going to the terminal and the opposite wires of each match connected to each other. Each method has it's positives and negatives. I prefer series wiring because you can test continuity of the entire circuit. With parallel wiring you will show good continuity if one match is good even if the others are bad.

[WithReport]

... I probably won't wire shells in series again. I'll just fast fuse......problem solved! Assuming I can still get fast fuse.

With MJG Initiators, I've not had any issues with series wiring, to my recollection they have all gone - at least 100+ cans over the last couple years wired in series for various size flights of cannisters.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5996&stc=1http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5997&stc=1

[Arclight]

You should be able to run at least 2 igniters in parallel if you want to with most batteries. You won't be able to properly continuity test each one this way, but they should work. If you go more than 2 in parallel, your battery needs to have enough current to fire them. You'll want to test this.

Series wiring typically lets you fire more things on one circuit and allows for continuity checking. You need to have a high enough voltage to service them all. They also need to be close in resistance to each other or you can get misfires.

[Salutecake]

Hey PyroKing31, this is they way I wire most of my show, at least anything in a mortar - consumer and display.
I don't know if this is OK to list but Dave made this video a few years back and I'm guessing it is good to use. Please remove if not Dave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd9E0G09u-Q I think about 7.48 into the vid.
just my 2cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd9E0G09u-Q

[displayfireworks1]

I have video of variations of that knot posted in a few videos.
.
From 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsVA6PWeyv0
.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucIFFsyVREc

[Salutecake]

Thanks for both of those video's Dave- Yes the second one you showed is the method I use most of the time, works well at clean up time. Also if you get to know your product, I sometimes will tie up the ematch to the mortars and then put the product in later.

I also use your technique that was on the first video. That also works well, I use that method for articles, and 1.3 fiberglass mortars because they have the bell shape on the end and are thinner than the hdpe. Most of my fiberglass mortars have been switched to hdpe and I have already drilled holes through, so I use the second vid method most of the time.