Mjg shunt

[BoomOhio]

I started poking cakes today and noticed my mjg firewire does not have a shunt in the plug. All my wires last year had them. Is there anything I need to worry about?

[Mattp]

As long as the bare copper wires are twisted together.. they are shunted… they don’t always have that little rubber on them

[WithReport]

... shunt in the plug...? I'm assuming you are talking about quickplugs so there is no coper wire to twist together.

I suppose you could use a small 22-24awg wire and create a similar shunt for the MTA 100 connector. Looks like the mating pins (this is just off a quick search, so someone could verify) are .025"

5789

[WithReport]

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5790&stc=1

Note that such shunting does not remove all risk with an unintentional discharge, even from static.

[Arles]

I started poking cakes today and noticed my mjg firewire does not have a shunt in the plug. All my wires last year had them. Is there anything I need to worry about?

I had a box of MJG ignitors purchased from Cobra that had nearly half of them missing shuts. The other 9 boxes appear to be okay. Cobra sent me a bag containing hundreds of shunts, so happy to drop a few in the mail if you need them. Another great service experience with Cobra.

[BoomOhio]

Yep im talk abot the quickplugs. I tape the plug to side of cake for transport. Do you guys think this is ok or should i shunt? I tried attaching a pic of the plug taped against the cake

[BoomOhio]

Arles.....If you think I need them that would be much appreciated!

[displayfireworks1]

I have no idea why some of you guys are starting to set up your July 4th displays this early. I know everyone has the pyro fever etc. Once you match this product , where is it being stored etc. It is just all unnecessary. If you are doing a pyro musical maybe place numbers or stickers on your products. Relax and do not take unnecessary risk for 2 weeks matching all this product. What worries me is, where are you storing this matched product for two weeks? Stacking it on top of each-other in what location?
If you watch some of professional shoot videos over the years. I am showing up the morning of the shoot and setting up an entire professional 1.3 display on the same day as the shoot. How big is your display you need a two week setup? Please be careful.

[DavidthePyro]

Great points Dave. I do all the labeling I need so I can poke and ematch in the field the morning of.

The pyro fever is kind of ridiculous. The workload is part of the thrill so you gotta leave some for the day of

[jamisonlm3]

If you watch some of professional shoot videos over the years. I am showing up the morning of the shoot and setting up an entire professional 1.3 display on the same day as the shoot. How big is your display you need a two week setup? Please be careful.You have to remember that most guys will not have a crew to work with. If they do have people helping, it's most likely for labor alone.

[AxeElf]

I guess that's one advantage of talons over igniters; they can be wired up whenever with virtually no chance of a premature firing.

[Engineer Cat]

I guess that's one advantage of talons over igniters; they can be wired up whenever with virtually no chance of a premature firing.

I don't trust talons. They are just another kink in the chain when trying to shoot a show with timing. They failed me big time 2 years ago in "talongate". I wasn't the only one that dealt with it on here.

I get the pyro fever thing but it doesn't take much longer to poke and stick the initiator in there than it does to connect a talon without breaking the wire.

[Berserker23]

I have no idea why some of you guys are starting to set up your July 4th displays this early. I know everyone has the pyro fever etc. Once you match this product , where is it being stored etc. It is just all unnecessary. If you are doing a pyro musical maybe place numbers or stickers on your products. Relax and do not take unnecessary risk for 2 weeks matching all this product. What worries me is, where are you storing this matched product for two weeks? Stacking it on top of each-other in what location?
If you watch some of professional shoot videos over the years. I am showing up the morning of the shoot and setting up an entire professional 1.3 display on the same day as the shoot. How big is your display you need a two week setup? Please be careful.
I haven?t poked my 80+ cakes yet but planning on doing it later this week I?m a one man team and I barely get any sleep the night before because I also do the cooking which is smoking Brisket and ribs on the offset smoker I don?t have the energy doing all of this in the Florida heat on the same day so I have no choice but to plan ahead and people are probably in the same situation

[BoomOhio]

starting to poke early has nothing to do with "pyro fever" at least not for me. Its because of everything else going on the day of the shoot . Im a 1 man operation and dont even get access to the shoot site until 6pm. I try and do everything I can to make setup as quick as possible and try to be safe as possible which is why im asking about the shunt. Once poked they go back into storage then carefully moved for transport to the site. guess next year I can at least wait until the day before.

[Greenville Pyro]

I haven?t poked my 80+ cakes yet but planning on doing it later this week I?m a one man team and I barely get any sleep the night before because I also do the cooking which is smoking Brisket and ribs on the offset smoker I don?t have the energy doing all of this in the Florida heat on the same day so I have no choice but to plan ahead and people are probably in the same situation

This is EXACTLY my situation: Trying to move over and set up all the show in the SC heat, smoke the pork shoulders, prep the other food, clean the house, manage my kids excitement. I don't have the time to mess around.

[BMoore]

I understand the need to get things done early, but e-matches/initiators do not go into product until the day of the show at the shoot site. What I do is poke the product and cover the hole with tape. I also pre-wire my show including wiring up the scab wire, hooking up my matches in series, etc. I test continuity to make sure everything is looking good and then I take it apart, shunt the wires roll them up and label them for the cue. Then on shoot day it's just a matter of plug and play. Inserting the matches literally takes about 2 seconds per item. Its just not worth the risk to pre-match. Static electricity, lightning, radio interference, etc. are all supposedly capable of popping them. Didn't Dave actually have one pop on him during a training session due to static?

[WithReport]

I don't trust talons. They are just another kink in the chain when trying to shoot a show with timing. They failed me big time 2 years ago in "talongate". I wasn't the only one that dealt with it on here.

I get the pyro fever thing but it doesn't take much longer to poke and stick the initiator in there than it does to connect a talon without breaking the wire.


I think the comment from AxeElf was not pertaining to convenience, but safety. A static charge through the nichrome wire is not going to pull enough current for long enough to heat up the nichrome.

Unfortunate that you had a bad experience with talons. I used talons for years and really had no problem with them. I would say my success rate with talons was as good as mjg igniters or e-match. But with that said, I hardly ever use talons any more even though I have hundreds left.

[BoomOhio]

I went ahead and pulled the initiators from all the cakes that I poked. Put tape over holes and tape initiator to side of cake. After reading the comments I figured why take any chances.

[AxeElf]

I don't trust talons. They are just another kink in the chain when trying to shoot a show with timing. They failed me big time 2 years ago in "talongate". I wasn't the only one that dealt with it on here.

I get the pyro fever thing but it doesn't take much longer to poke and stick the initiator in there than it does to connect a talon without breaking the wire.

I hear the stories, but so far, I don't have one. I've had a couple fail out of several hundred, but to my knowledge I've never had any problems with breaking the wire, and the fails are within acceptable limits. I've been able to time things pretty well, too.

This year will probably be my last big show, though. As an overweight diabetic with a heart condition, this nearly kills me every year, and with the prices going sky high now, I think it's the year to clean out the inventory.

So just 200 or so more talons to go before I won't care any more.

[Scotty Rockets]

To be a devils advocate here... I know of 2 well known display companies that transport their choreographed shows ematched, I?m going to not put them on blast here... Also what about pre-ematched gerbs, strobes and flames? Coming across the ocean mixed with other pyrotechnics, transported by truck, and then transported by truck numerous times to warehouses and finally to the show. Something to think about...

[Scotty Rockets]

To add... there has never been a reported accident involving ematched product while in transportation.

[jamisonlm3]

Didn't tennerite's air burst cakes come ematched?

[Scotty Rockets]

They sure did

[Berserker23]

I’m poking my cakes and putting the initiators in later this week my shooting site is my backyard so I walk the firework boards to the backyard I’m not worried about static electricity because I live in Florida the humidity is high everyday during the summer plus I have shunts in my initiators QuickClips.

[MontanaMike]

Well now I'm worried.... I was thinking the shunt was our "saving grace" and it was OK to match product before transporting it as long as it was shunted and not connected to modules, but now I'm seeing in this thread that that's a bad idea. I was thinking the static electricity was the big worry but do initiators just go off from.... what exactly? I've seen Dave's video where he had to hit one with a hammer to get it to go off prematurely.

Our show is strictly a spare-time volunteer effort so we work on it when we can. We matched a lot of our product last night, but now I'm wondering if I should go through and un-match it. Nothing is stacked on anything, it's all just laid out on boards at the moment.

[BMoore]

Well now I'm worried.... I was thinking the shunt was our "saving grace" and it was OK to match product before transporting it as long as it was shunted and not connected to modules, but now I'm seeing in this thread that that's a bad idea. I was thinking the static electricity was the big worry but do initiators just go off from.... what exactly? I've seen Dave's video where he had to hit one with a hammer to get it to go off prematurely.

Our show is strictly a spare-time volunteer effort so we work on it when we can. We matched a lot of our product last night, but now I'm wondering if I should go through and un-match it. Nothing is stacked on anything, it's all just laid out on boards at the moment.

I would not go back and undo anything. Most e-match accidents happen while inserting or removing them so at this point you are statistically safer to just leave them alone. As I understand it shunting prevents a charge from traveling the wires but there is still a small chance that current could enter the match head itself and ignite it. Ever touched something and got a static shock where you saw the spark? If a spark like that hit the match head it could pop. Someone questioned pre-matched items. Well they are done at the factory so you aren?t inserting or removing. They also carefully seal the match head inside the tube and usually use a glob of glue to completely insulate the head. Accidents are rare but they do happen. We all chose our own level of risk but I personally will not insert e-matches in advance.

[Scotty Rockets]

I would not go back and undo anything. Most e-match accidents happen while inserting or removing them so at this point you are statistically safer to just leave them alone. As I understand it shunting prevents a charge from traveling the wires but there is still a small chance that current could enter the match head itself and ignite it. Ever touched something and got a static shock where you saw the spark? If a spark like that hit the match head it could pop. Someone questioned pre-matched items. Well they are done at the factory so you aren?t inserting or removing. They also carefully seal the match head inside the tube and usually use a glob of glue to completely insulate the head. Accidents are rare but they do happen. We all chose our own level of risk but I personally will not insert e-matches in advance.

That is absolutely true, more accidents have happened while inserting or removing ematch, likely 99.9% Folks do not dismantle and remove your ematch/firewire. What’s done is done, don’t risk it.

[BoomOhio]

Wow, I originally posted asking about shunt then that turned into I shouldn't have ematched my cakes this early. That got me worried so i decided to take the ematch out. That turns into you shouldn't take your match out whats done is done. Lol

[WithReport]

Wow, I originally posted asking about shunt then that turned into I shouldn't have ematched my cakes this early. That got me worried so i decided to take the ematch out. That turns into you shouldn't take your match out whats done is done. Lol

Oh, the "pre-match-or-not-to-pre-match" discussion is maybe second to the "MCR" discussions. I was just reading through this and had the same though. The question was what to do with a missing quick plug shunt.

With the proliferation of "off the shelf" firing systems, some with the capability to use your phone, which will be at point-of-sale displays at many stands, I have mixed feelings on whether this is a good thing for the industry and/or advanced hobbyists - especially those that rely solely on static-sensitive igniters. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponent of firing systems - when understood and used safety.

Here BoomOhio asked a good question about a missing shunt on a quick plug. While the concern with static discharge igniting a igniter is real, I suspect that the vast majority of people that pick up a firing system as they check out of a fireworks tent on the 3rd or the 4th, won't give it any thought. I've joined some of the FB user groups for these point-of-sale systems and see a lot of basic questions related to the safety of firing systems being asked - which is good, but I figure those seeking such answers are the minority.

I've shared this article to a few new users of firing systems, if you haven't seen it before, it is interesting: http://blog.skylighter.com/fireworks/2012/02/are-electric-matches-really-safer.html?fbclid=IwAR0AalktdZ-73sm-6BdJ57XjUHNGE--igv7oFwkNvK_R_xbRtfHtT9Cvluc
The main point is "electrical firing systems don?t eliminate risk; they TRANSFER the risk [to the setup] in most scenarios." For me personally, the scariest situation I have been in with fireworks (5" rack) only happened because of a firing system and it's misuse by another person.

As for this spinoff topic...Do people pre-match? yep. Do items come pre-matched? yep (I've been told that there are extra manufacturing steps with pre-matched items; e.g., match is set in a compound that to prevent movement, etc., but it does come pre-matched). Oh, as for Tannarite cakes, none of my cakes have ever come "pre-matched". Rather they come with an ematch in the tube. Ive still had to insert the match in the tube. Question of others, have you actually had pre-matched tubes?.


Well BoomOhio, I hope you sorted out your missing shunt. QuickPlugs are great, but it can be another example where the industry is sacrificing some safety for convenience. For all igniters, the industry shunts the leads during manufacturing. Standard igniters can be manufactured shunted or easily shunted by a user without the need for a separate component.. We've lost that with Quickplugs.

[Birdman]

I use to pre-insert but now I poke and tape then insert the MJG at setup. The risk of an MJG firing prematurely is low but it is an unnecessary risk. Like Dave said, it only takes a second or two to insert the MJG when setting up. Majority of my product this year is AP so I have little poking to do so I just saved it all for setup. I have only labor on setup day since I don't trust my help to poke or brace. I want to own any mistakes. Luckily all I have to do on the 4th is setup and fire. After the show I make sure there is nothing that hasn't fired and then disconnect my mods. The cleanup crew does the rest the next morning.

As for the QP's with no shunt....I'm not sure I would put a wire shunt in after it's inserted. Before....yes. I would think about covering the end with electrical tape to insulate but would probably ask here too.

[Arclight]

According to ATF, pyrotechnics with an installed e-match are still considered low explosives and they don't need to be stored in a separate magazine. This maybe tells us something about how they see the risk.

At the other extreme, blasting caps are stored in a separate, detached magazine and are always shunted until they are ready to be installed. A stick of dynamite with a cap installed is called a "primer" and is supposed to be placed and used right away. A lot of blasters will even go as far as to take an electric cap,hook it up to their firing line while it's on the ground and pointed in a safe direction, and only then attach it to the rest of the initiation system. You would have the other end of the firing line shunted and you would typically keep the electric blasting machine with you.

This gives you maximum chances to not blow yourself up. If stray currents or something connected to the firing line is going to set off that cap, it's a lot better if it just pops sitting on the ground away from everything. If nothing happens when you hook it up, it's unlikely that it will.

[R. Derrick]

Although I don't have anything to add -

I would like to say, I learned a lot on this thread and thanks for all who replied and gave advice. I don't feel so "late" as to not having poked anything. But I didn't poke because of safety concerns - not that I was worried, I'm new and rather be safe than sorry. Respect the firework and its danger was my mindset, no matter if it's done every day. I hope never to lose that mindset.

Again, I thanks for all the input from everyone.

[ssmith512]

Respect the firework and its danger was my mindset, no matter if it's done every day.

The mindset TO have. Period. They day you become complacent is usually the day bad stuff happens.

[displayfireworks1]

There are professional display companies that match all the shells and throw them back in the box for transport. And this was before there were ports on all the shells. Perfectly acceptable by the ATF and DOT. I will not say which company it was. Most of my work is at Zambelli International and none of the product was matched until we arrived at the shoot site. Back when I was more of a helper than a lead, for some reason we placed electric match in all of these 1.3 cakes while at ground level, then jam packed this service elevator to the ceiling with matched cakes and further jammed four of us crew members as the elevator made it way to the top the building. I was nervous wreck in that elevator having match in all of that product. I remember once we got to the roof I said: Why the hell didn't we wait until we got to the roof and then match the product. LOL
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There was one accident years back in Florida I believe when two box trucks parked back to back and transferred matched product from one full truck to the other empty truck. Something happened and it all went , all three crew died because the trucks were back to back with no escape. No one lived to tell the story of how it happened. Electric match was suspect. The ATF and DOT I believe have rules about transferring Hazmat products in route in a non emergent situation. There is a question like this on a CDL Hazmat driver license test.
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Over the years some of that Tannerite M-25 stuff came supplied with an electric match already ported. While it requires no special storage. If I am going to store, I will completely remove the electric match and sleep much easier.
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Please everyone be careful with electric match and/or the MJG Initiators

[AxeElf]

There was one accident years back in Florida I believe when two box trucks parked back to back and transferred matched product from one full truck to the other empty truck. Something happened and it all went , all three crew died because the trucks were back to back with no escape. No one lived to tell the story of how it happened. Electric match was suspect.

That should be a Darwin Award right there. Why wouldn't they offset the two trucks a little so that they could get in or out on either side, and transfer fireworks in the middle, rather than create a sealed enclosure like that??

If brains were dynamite... these three would have lived.

[displayfireworks1]

That should be a Darwin Award right there. Why wouldn't they offset the two trucks a little so that they could get in or out on either side, and transfer fireworks in the middle, rather than create a sealed enclosure like that??

If brains were dynamite... these three would have lived.

First off , add your location to your profile "Earth" is not going to get it. Or I will add it. I guess you need to work multiple professional displays around the July 4th holiday to understand the pressure to meet deadlines. Not that it justifies taking shortcuts,

[AxeElf]

I guess you need to work multiple professional displays around the July 4th holiday to understand the pressure to meet deadlines. Not that it justifies taking shortcuts,

I'm just a problem-solver.

[displayfireworks1]

Actually you are a problem creator and disrespectful over the deaths of three pyro technicians. Has that old pyro universe sound to it.

[Scotty Rockets]

That should be a Darwin Award right there. Why wouldn't they offset the two trucks a little so that they could get in or out on either side, and transfer fireworks in the middle, rather than create a sealed enclosure like that??

If brains were dynamite... these three would have lived.

Actually how the trucks were lined up had nothing to do with saving lives... This happens so freaking fast regardless. These trucks are basically loaded bombs there is no escaping if product ignites. It is the risk we all deal with especially in the 1.3 world. I for one would not haul ematched 1.3, no damn way!!!

[Salutecake]

Dave,

Forgive me for not finding a follow up on this, but didn't an ematch mysteriously go off on you at Cobra Con? Was there a resolution on that?

[AxeElf]

Actually how the trucks were lined up had nothing to do with saving lives... This happens so freaking fast regardless. These trucks are basically loaded bombs there is no escaping if product ignites.

I dunno, I wasn't there, but Dave said in his description...


...all three crew died because the trucks were back to back with no escape.

...so that's what I was responding to.

[displayfireworks1]

Dave,

Forgive me for not finding a follow up on this, but didn't an ematch mysteriously go off on you at Cobra Con? Was there a resolution on that?

Took me a minute but I found my video discussing that event. It was with an MJG Initiator while I was teaching a class at Cobra Con in 2019. In the video you will hear Jeff from MJG the manufacturer of this product discuss the event with me. It is one of those things you can do 1000 times and never replicate the event. I will tell you I was wearing a polyester shirt and a plastic chair was in the equation. If any new fireworks enthusiast are out there reading this remember, just because the MJG Initiators do not require an ATF license to purchase, it does not necessarily mean they do not require you to take the same precautions as "Real" electric match.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NWIhXaauD4

[WithReport]

back-to-back trucks with no escape is not a good practice. But an escape route doesn't mean you will live...


...I'm pretty sure the Ocracoke NC accident, that was referenced in the article I provided a link to earlier, resulted in 4 killed and 1 survived. The survivor was near the back of the truck and jumped out - he was still in the hospital with multiple burns. I think the survivor made a statement that the others were closer to the explosion and had no chance I think there was only 1 truck involved.

[displayfireworks1]

The accident I referenced with the back to back trucks is not the North Carolina accident. The one I am referencing may have been back in the early 2000 or late 90's. I believe it was in the State of Florida if I remember correctly. If you do some research on professional display accidents over the years. Many were caused by electric match. Problem is the display industry is so competitive around that July 4th holiday , many display companies sell and make more promises than they can keep to prevent their competition from getting one of their displays. They poorly train and put too much faith and pressure in their Shooters to get the job done.
The best thing that is going to happen to the display industry is that more and more states further legalize Consumer Fireworks, the technology industry further developers high tech and affordable equipment for the backyard enthusiast and more and more fireworks enthusiast obtain the ATF license. The current way the display industry operates, I don't have much sympathy for them.

[AxeElf]

lol

Now he says he doesn't have much sympathy for them, when he called me a "problem creator" for disrespecting the deaths of pyro technicians a couple of pages back. I see people making fun of idiots with fireworks on this site all the time, but I suggest a Darwin Award for parking two trucks full of fireworks back to back, and I'm being disrespectful.

And I use "Earth" as my location on many a message board, and nobody's ever gotten their panties in a wad over it before. What's funny is that you suspended me for like I week when I first signed up for that, and when I got back, I just changed it back and nobody has noticed for like 3 years. lol But now it's such a big problem that I get this:


If you change that location your posting from to anything other than Kansas . I can see you are from Kansas City. I'm going to toss you out of pyrotalk.

I've had just about enough of your jackholery, and the elitist attitude of this place in general.

So you can take your little site and ƒuck right off now.

Toodles.

[displayfireworks1]

lol

Now he says he doesn't have much sympathy for them, when he called me a "problem creator" for disrespecting the deaths of pyro technicians a couple of pages back. I see people making fun of idiots with fireworks on this site all the time, but I suggest a Darwin Award for parking two trucks full of fireworks back to back, and I'm being disrespectful.

And I use "Earth" as my location on many a message board, and nobody's ever gotten their panties in a wad over it before. What's funny is that you suspended me for like I week when I first signed up for that, and when I got back, I just changed it back and nobody has noticed for like 3 years. lol But now it's such a big problem that I get this:



I've had just about enough of your jackholery, and the elitist attitude of this place in general.

So you can take your little site and ?uck right off now.

Toodles.

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I had a feeling I would see this when I logged on this AM. The way he described it looks pretty correct.
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However, the real truth is in the next to the last sentence. and the elitist attitude of this place in general. There is a group of workers in this fireworks industry that are not happy a random group of fireworks enthusiast watching YouTube etc are now part of an ever growing of advanced fireworks enthusiast base. ATF license, firing systems , racks , fusing and even pyro-musicals.
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Note I said "Workers" in the industry. Actual business people and professional organizations in the industry do not feel this way toward me or forums members of pyrotalk.