Electronic Initatiors and Consumer Display Shells

[gecko2015]

With this year's lack of supply in quick fuse, does anyone have any experience using electronic initiators in 5" consumer display shells?

I've always used quick fuse to immediately send up display shells during a black sky or for scripting, but it's looking more and more like that won't be possible this year given no one has quick fuse. I contacted cannonfuse.com and the response was "It has been made and sitting in China for 14 months now. The current issue is no containers in China to put it in. We keep hoping the situation will correct itself, but so far it hasn't." :(

I've typically avoided using initiators in display shells, just because I've believe it to be too risky (but that's just my opinion). It seems it'd be too likely for the shell to take the initiator and the connecting firing-wire up with it doing one of two things:

A) Rip the wire from your firing module or worse;
B) Prevent the shell from lifting if the initiator fails to extract during the shell's aerial ascent.

Has anyone had success using electronic initiators in display shells?

[Birdman]

I poke the bottom of shells. Just place the MJG into the lift charge and tape it place. You need to tie off the wires, especially if you tape the wire to the side of the shell for easier loading into the mortar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZthkPvKrDY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVXYZK5DI6c

If you can't get fast fuse but have slower fuse, have you thought about fusing and firing multiple rows in a rack simultaneously?

I've been fast fusing my finale racks but recently have been trying to slow them down a bit so I have moved away from using all fast fuse.

I don't recommend series wiring shells if you poke into the lift charge. I tried this once and it appears that there is too much delay and the wires will be ripped apart by the first shell(s) before MJG's fire on the others. Series wiring to fuse is a better option if you must wire in series. You have to ensure the wires are not ripped apart when the shells start to lift.

[jamisonlm3]

How do you normally fuse your shells? A single piece of fast fuse on top the mortars? You can put screws in your rack to prevent them from pulling on your modules. Just wrap the wire around a couple of times. There's so much force when a shell lifts, I'm not sure the small wire used with igniters is going to interfere with it.

[gecko2015]

I will have two racks of shells. One rack will be standard chain-fusing with unaltered shells designed for the show scripting. The other rack is my back up to immediately send something in the air in case a cake fails to fire or ends much earlier than anticipated.

For my backup rack, I typically just use a brass awl to enlarge the hole where the manufacture fuse enters the lift charge and insert my own quick fuse. I then cut it to the same size as the manufacture Visco fuse and attach an MJG initiator on the end of the quick fuse.

It's a pyromusical so speed is important. I've done that for 2 years and it's worked great.

Thanks for the response and tips Birdman and Jamisonlm3. I knew I've seen a video of Dave's where he's done it, I just couldn't remember which one it was. Looks like I'll be giving it a shot this year!

[topshelfpyro]

be careful if you poke thru the bottom of a shell that you don't put the match shroud over the time fuse and cause a CATO.......

[ssmith512]

be careful if you poke thru the bottom of a shell that you don't put the match shroud over the time fuse and cause a CATO.......

How would that cause a CATO? The time fuse is lit the instant the lift charge is lit regardless if an MJG is used or not.

[Berserker23]

With this year's lack of supply in quick fuse, does anyone have any experience using electronic initiators in 5" consumer display shells?

I've always used quick fuse to immediately send up display shells during a black sky or for scripting, but it's looking more and more like that won't be possible this year given no one has quick fuse. I contacted cannonfuse.com and the response was "It has been made and sitting in China for 14 months now. The current issue is no containers in China to put it in. We keep hoping the situation will correct itself, but so far it hasn't." :(

I've typically avoided using initiators in display shells, just because I've believe it to be too risky (but that's just my opinion). It seems it'd be too likely for the shell to take the initiator and the connecting firing-wire up with it doing one of two things:

A) Rip the wire from your firing module or worse;
B) Prevent the shell from lifting if the initiator fails to extract during the shell's aerial ascent.

Has anyone had success using electronic initiators in display shells?


I sent you a private message

[BMoore]

What I've always done is poke the bottom of the lift cup. This is usually much thinner than the side and easier to poke through. Also the shell will blow the e-match out the bottom so you have no risk of the shell taking the wire up with it. There is supposedly a risk that you could inadvertently surround the time fuse causing the shell to blow in the gun. I find that incredibly unlikely. Even if you managed to do that, I can't believe the time fuse wouldn't burn the plastic or release enough spark to light the lift charge. At any rate, easily avoidable by simply going in at an angle. Almost everyone pokes through the side so I must be missing something, but my way has worked for me without issue for many years.

[displayfireworks1]

I see one of those video above is mine. I had to age restrict some of my videos back when YouTube was cracking down on guns , explosives, fire and/or anything dangerous. The other video is from Mguerra, I don't hear much from him , he is still pyrotalk member. Now that this is posted I glanced over his video again. If you go with his technique I do not recommend cutting the fuse off. If something goes wrong with the display , leaving the fuse at least gives you an option to hand fire the shell to get it out of the mortar.
Cobra is linking to one of my E-Match artillery shell videos to demonstrate this E-Fire technique to advancing fireworks enthusiast. It may be mine posted above. It is an advanced technique that carries some element of risk. only do it if you feel comfortable doing so.
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The problem with us as advancing fireworks enthusiast using fireworks firing systems , computer software etc. to design displays , electric match etc. is , the industry is not catching up to the technology. Not me. I'm seeing the future. I am adding a E-Fire port to my 1.4 products for those that are advancing. Until the industry catches up with the technology, there are various techniques to defeat the Consumer fusing and move the product into our advanced firing. Now that I know more about the USA fireworks industry, I have some theories on why the industry is slow to adapt, but I would have to type 100 paragraphs and make about 30 people upset at me if I do.

[Birdman]

I agree with Dave that you shouldn't cut off the fuse. When I series wired and one shell didn't fire I was glad I left the fuse on.

I also agree with BMoore about poking the bottom. The few times I didn't tie off the wires there was no problem. However if you tape the wire to the shell for more stable loading into the tube you need to tie the wire off.

[gecko2015]

I appreciate everyone's response. It's provided me with a variety of options I can handle.

I knew I've seen it done before, but I've personally never done it so wanted to get some ideas of how you guys tackled it. Mostly because when it comes to altering fireworks I tend to stick with (what I believe to be) the absolute safest possible route, even if it costs me a bit more in labor/costs; and for me that's always been sticking in a consumer quick fuse into the lift charge port next to the already installed Visco fuse. But I've never had an issue with quick fuse stock until now.

I agree Dave and Birdman. I've always left my Visco fuses in for backup, regardless of the type of firework is being ported. There's really no need to cut it or pull it out.

[Birdman]

I was very hesitant poking shells. Seemed dangerous to me too but then someone reminded me that it's no different then poking a cakes. Now I think nothing of it.

[bingsbaits]

If all you need is a 20ft pack of white quick fuse, I could spare one. Only have a few but bought ahead because of the shortage..All I would need would be an address to send it too...

[absolute42]

I poke the bottom of shells. Just place the MJG into the lift charge and tape it place. You need to tie off the wires, especially if you tape the wire to the side of the shell for easier loading into the mortar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZthkPvKrDY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVXYZK5DI6c

If you can't get fast fuse but have slower fuse, have you thought about fusing and firing multiple rows in a rack simultaneously?

I've been fast fusing my finale racks but recently have been trying to slow them down a bit so I have moved away from using all fast fuse.

I don't recommend series wiring shells if you poke into the lift charge. I tried this once and it appears that there is too much delay and the wires will be ripped apart by the first shell(s) before MJG's fire on the others. Series wiring to fuse is a better option if you must wire in series. You have to ensure the wires are not ripped apart when the shells start to lift.

I apologize for bumping an old thread but why does he tape the wire to the top of the shell? wont this send the wire with it?

[joed2323]

I apologize for bumping an old thread but why does he tape the wire to the top of the shell? wont this send the wire with it?


Strain relief so the wire doesnt accidentally get pulled out of the shell, if the wire is accidentally tripped over during field setup and or when dropping the shell down in the tube

The wire will not go up with the shell if the wire is tied off at the top of the tube

[Arclight]

I agree with Dave that you shouldn't cut off the fuse. When I series wired and one shell didn't fire I was glad I left the fuse on.


I learned a secret about why they won't always fire in series:

First, the recommended wiring for blasting caps and explosives is pretty much always series wiring. Those products have really strict quality control and are pretty much guaranteed to go off at once as long as you don't mix brands. An electric blasting cap also costs $4-8.

Electric matches are obviously a lot less expensive and not quite as consistent. What I was told from my vendor that sells 1.4S propellant cartridges for blasters is that the hot wire part the igniter can vary a bit in resistance. If they are different by more than 0.5 ohm, the one with the lowest resistance might not fire when they are in series. It will still work fine by itself.

So if you are going to put a bunch of e-matches in series for one cue, I would recommend getting a multimeter and checking the igniters first. Sort them to be within 0.5 ohm before hooking up, and you should have no problems.

If you're wiring in parallel, this doesn't apply. But you do have a different problem in that you need a decent current source like a Lithium battery or Lead Acid and they will fail to go off if any of them get shorted out.

Arclight

[displayfireworks1]

I learned a secret about why they won't always fire in series:

First, the recommended wiring for blasting caps and explosives is pretty much always series wiring. Those products have really strict quality control and are pretty much guaranteed to go off at once as long as you don't mix brands. An electric blasting cap also costs $4-8.

Electric matches are obviously a lot less expensive and not quite as consistent. What I was told from my vendor that sells 1.4S propellant cartridges for blasters is that the hot wire part the igniter can vary a bit in resistance. If they are different by more than 0.5 ohm, the one with the lowest resistance might not fire when they are in series. It will still work fine by itself.

So if you are going to put a bunch of e-matches in series for one cue, I would recommend getting a multimeter and checking the igniters first. Sort them to be within 0.5 ohm before hooking up, and you should have no problems.

If you're wiring in parallel, this doesn't apply. But you do have a different problem in that you need a decent current source like a Lithium battery or Lead Acid and they will fail to go off if any of them get shorted out.

Arclight

Speaking of blasting equipment, I know that is your specialty in California. Here is a piece of blasting equipment I purchase around 9 years ago. The one feature I liked about it is that you can test continuity on those two buttons with an audible sound. Now that I owned this for 9 years, I'm curious did it ever find a market in the blasting industry? I remember talking with creator of this device and discussing if it had a market in the pyrotechnic industry.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5940&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5941&stc=1

[Arclight]

Yes, that's a current product in the blasting industry. It's used for firing lots of electric caps simultaneously or initiating products like those 1.4S explosives where a higher-output machine is recommended the manufacturer. Here is what I'm working on currently - a paper on "blasting for rescue applications" using these:

https://nxco.co.za/products/