Fuse, cakes, cues questions

[DavidthePyro]

I have heard that "if you use a piece of fuse longer than your arm it is indicative of something" I was wondering if someone could elaborate. I am planning to do 2-3 cakes per cue with every other cue having a milk crate rack of DR11. I wanted to use initiators and put each cake/rack on a cue but just don't have the cue space. Has anyone ever replaced the fuse on cakes and chained cakes together from the last tube in a cake to the first tube in the next cake? I am planning to just have a length of timed fuse going from the racks to the cakes in each cue, roughly 6-8 cakes per 2'x4' board, so there will be some length to the fuse. Also, I'm double fusing everything to ensure ignition. But poking the cakes at the ends to chain them just popped into my head. Any thoughts? Should I just get another 40 or so cues for my show?

[PyroKing31]

Having more cues is definitely the more consistent way to do it. but yes you can cut open and poke the last shot and insert a fuse into it and direct into the first shot of the next case. Make sure to use a brass non sparking awl to do your pokes.

[BMoore]

Not sure if you want to hand fire anything but another option might be to electronically fire the cakes since you are doing multiples and hand light the racks. I never have enough cues and that’s my strategy. Hand light the single shells and cakes and e-fire the multiples and things that need perfect timing.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I read your post and laughed out loud for real! Dave (Displayfirework1) our humble host of this site, is famous for asking that fuse length question. The point being, if you are using runs of fuse that are longer than your arm, you should probably consider an electronic firing system instead. It sounds like you are already there, just short on cues. I certainly don't want to speak for Dave, but IMHO, I'd say buy more cues if you can. If not, try to wire some effects in series if you can to get more bang for the cues you already have. Unless you only fire 1 cake at a time. If that's the case, forget what I said. :cool:

[N.E. Pyrotechnics]

One of the first things that I learned when coming to this forum was some chain fusing techniques. I currently have one of the Asiatic firing systems with 24 cues, but started trying to chain fuse before purchasing the system. Playing the guessing game of cake/fuse duration created more frustration than anything. I quickly learned that fuse burn times are inconsistent at best. I've had fuse from the same manufacturer, hell even the same lot control number from the same brand burn at different rates. The same can be said for cake durations. The inconsistencies make it near impossible to "long fuse" a show, and not have some dark sky. I don't mind overlap of cakes, but I don't have much patience for unintended dark sky.
Chain fusing eliminates, or greatly reduces the impact of those inconsistencies that we can't control. I do my best when laying out my boards to fire the entire board with as few cues as possible. If I can I will attach images of boards I'm finishing up for Memorial Day.

Some things I have learned along the way....
Once you have two items chained together, you must keep them from moving around relative to one another. I glue my cakes to my boards, but I have also used a tape gun, with the 2" wide clear shipping tape. It's cheap, really easy to stick two cakes together with just a couple of wraps. Cakes stay together, and you have likely eliminated most tip hazards.

Pay attention to where you are poking the tube! Poke too low, and all you're doing is poking the plug. Poke too high, and you could potentially poke the cartridge. Unless you are a fan of the flower pot, I wouldn't recommend poking too high. I measure from the bottom of the tube to the holes made by the manufacturer for their fusing.

Purchase or make a non-ferrous tool for poking your cakes. Copper, brass, and aluminum will all work safely. The point is don't poke iron (steel) tools into your lift charges.

If you are making boards and chain fusing cake to cake, you have to take some kind of measure to prevent accidental/unintended firing because of spark or fuse jumping. Most fuse that is available to the consumer market are made to resist side ignition (quick fuse is not), but it just a really good idea to protect any exposed fuse. I prefer the adhesive backed aluminum tape used for duct work. I pick it up at my local hardware store.

Please be safe my friend.
Think about where you are working, and what could happen in the worst case scenario. Keep your cakes pointed away from you when working on them. I am new to fireworks, but have been working in heavy industry all of my working life. There is no short cut for working safely.http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4902&stc=1

[rer07]

Just a thought but couldn’t you just tie your chain fuse between the last tube and the 2nd to last tube so there would be no need to poke the last tube? I thought I seen a video of this being done on Dave’s site or somewhere else.

[rfgonzo]

Just a thought but couldn’t you just tie your chain fuse between the last tube and the 2nd to last tube so there would be no need to poke the last tube? I thought I seen a video of this being done on Dave’s site or somewhere else.

Yes you can but it's quicker to just poke the last tube and tape it up.

[DavidthePyro]

Wow, a whole lot to digest. It sounds like chain fusing will be my route. I definitely want to get things as tight as I can, but I don't want to invest in my cheap firing system more, I'd rather take a step into something a little less "little tikes" so to speak. I bought a lot of fuse but I'm really not planning on using much other than my racks and milk crate mortar "cakes". Thanks for the input everyone! Glad I could make you laugh Rick!

[AquaticPyro]

I use a lot a fuse timing, I do not have several grand for a Cobra, fake cakes are often two feet wide so I need the fusing to be at least two feet but if I need a three and half second delay, I have to use my 1 seconds per foot fusing which put it a 42 inches. The point is that is not always true however most of the time it is. I like to break my show into segments and also pairs of cakes firing together. I usually do cake then the blast of mortars and I just passfire both the cake and mortars starting fuse, I just use a length of fuse that matches the cakes duration, of it is 20 seconds use two feet of perfect fuse. It has not failed me yet. From you small board size the must not be using fan cakes. I usually set up either 4 cakes and a 2'x2' or a squadron on a 8 foot sheet, like I do for my finale. I work over cement so I have wheels on the big sheets and roll them into position.

[AquaticPyro]

When you get the time build a few wooden racks. I have made several. It allows you to angle some shots, etc. It is not that hard, I pre-drill and countersink (the make countersink drill bit for that) the screws unlike some people. I also prime and paint them black, just avoid flat black if you do, it is a dirt magnet. Paint them however YOU want for a custom look. They will also last longer. Keeps the crate too. Great for a finale burst.

[AquaticPyro]

I do that all the time. Dual Passfire is so much more reliable. You will need to work out the timing though.

[AquaticPyro]

I owe the console version with about 96 cues or something but I still us fusing too, mostly to synchronize each section of cakes. I muse board but to not bother using glue. It also allows me to use the board again next time. I also use a torch as well, as needed. When you are on a budget you need to utilize all tools available. Personally, I do not modify cakes. Maybe if I had some of Dave's to get to the port but I would not do what he is thinking about.

[esgrillo]

I have A LOT of Cobra equipment and I still fuse plenty of cakes. I generally use fuse common cakes that I have grouped together, taped, and fused as necessary for the timing I want. I usually allow a bit of an overlap before the next cake e-fires so black sky isnt usually a problem. You still can get very precise timing this way because you always start your next effect cycle with an ematch fired cake. For example I have 90 200g bump bears that are part of my finale that I sent off with a single Cobra que and some slats.

I would be divorced and broke if I tried to have enough cobra equipment and not use any fusing lol.

You can see my show timing is pretty good in my recent videos and how I assemble cakes/fuse. Also I do not glue or stake any cakes, when you group and tape several together, it is completely unnecessary to do so IMHO, so it saves set up time as well.

[topshelfpyro]

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4971&stc=1

This is what happens to a milk crate rack when a shell doesn't lift. No it wasn't loaded upside down....no this wasn't me but a friend of mine this happened to....no this wasn't a special shell.....

[DavidthePyro]

Guess I'm gonna need to look into building several more racks, probably 23 10 shot racks so i can use them in various combos of 10,20,50 etc. I have had a shell flowerpot but didn't destroy the dr11... that concerns me if I have the whole thing loaded and that happens with shells yet to go off. Wow.

[topshelfpyro]

Everyone has their own opinion but I prefer 6 shot racks. Shells always seem to be sold in multiples of 6. 6, 12, 18, 24. It's easy to take 4- 6 shots and make a 24 shot which holds a regular box of cans. Easy to carry, stack, etc