Jake's Sues the Consumer Product Safety Commission

[displayfireworks1]

Please see document .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U4iGHm7m38
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[displayfireworks1]

Here is the document United States District Court for the District of Maryland ( Southern Division)
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[displayfireworks1]

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[displayfireworks1]

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[displayfireworks1]

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[displayfireworks1]

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4072&stc=1
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End of document

[PyroJoeNEPA]

WOW!!! It took a while to read it all--but it looks like they have an extremely valid argument in their favor. As a retired Audio Engineer I can easily see the inability to establish and verify reproducible and repeatable test results just by someones "listening" to a shell lift out of a tube!!!
I hope it does not get "slow tracked" in the court system & they win the case!

[displayfireworks1]

There is faction out there that will not be happy until these fireworks are so watered down and sitting on a shelf in Walmart. And its from groups in the industry. There is more brewing , that is all I can say for now. Thanks for reading it and your comment. I think that one attorney Mullin listed in the closing was at that public CPSC hearing.

[AxeElf]

I hope that this lawsuit goes "bang" and not "poof."

[jamisonlm3]

Can't wait to see what becomes of this.

[chriskrc]

Lets hope this goes in favor of Jake's.

[BMoore]

Sounds like Jake's has a valid argument, but my concern is that this will add fuel to the fire on the metals ban. Remember, one of the arguments for the metals ban is to eliminate the need for the ear test. I have no doubt that the original intent of the law was to ban salutes only and I'd like to see something come out of this that benefits us all. Part of me though thinks it might be best not to poke the bear.

[RalphieJ]

"One Man's bang is another Man's poof. - RalphieJ, 06/19/2019

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Joe - I'm with you 110%! We had a new guy take over the oversight of the Safety Team at PGI last year. He was over at the Class C line almost every night claiming he heard juiced up cakes and shells. He said he could tell that they were all "flash powder breaks" so they HAD to be juiced up. Some of us downloaded decibel apps on our phones and there was no difference between what he said were juiced cakes and those he didn't complain about. It got very annoying listening to him all week.

You can't draw scientific conclusions with any degree of certainty by listening to something with your human ears. Science just doesn't work that way.

[cptnding]

Joe - I'm with you 110%! We had a new guy take over the oversight of the Safety Team at PGI last year. He was over at the Class C line almost every night claiming he heard juiced up cakes and shells. He said he could tell that they were all "flash powder breaks" so they HAD to be juiced up. Some of us downloaded decibel apps on our phones and there was no difference between what he said were juiced cakes and those he didn't complain about. It got very annoying listening to him all week.

You can't draw scientific conclusions with any degree of certainty by listening to something with your human ears. Science just doesn't work that way.

That's interesting Rick. I was at the C line a good bit and heard some of the bitching as well. A few guys showed up with some that were obvious ol but I just didn't see it with most. To me a visual test would be much more obvious. If it's flash broken you can clearly see it. Maybe I'm missing something?
Are you going to Gillette this year? I've never been there due to distance but it being the 50th we're planning to make the trip.

[chriskrc]

Joe - I'm with you 110%! We had a new guy take over the oversight of the Safety Team at PGI last year. He was over at the Class C line almost every night claiming he heard juiced up cakes and shells. He said he could tell that they were all "flash powder breaks" so they HAD to be juiced up. Some of us downloaded decibel apps on our phones and there was no difference between what he said were juiced cakes and those he didn't complain about. It got very annoying listening to him all week.

You can't draw scientific conclusions with any degree of certainty by listening to something with your human ears. Science just doesn't work that way.

This is well said and true Rick. Without a decibel meter no one can truky say they hear a difference just by standing there and listening. Maybe in certain noises one can hear a difference in noise levels but it would be to hard to hear in 1.4 fireworks. Rick did anyone show him the reading from the app?

[nightstalker]

Good for Jake's for standing up to them.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

That's interesting Rick. I was at the C line a good bit and heard some of the bitching as well. A few guys showed up with some that were obvious ol but I just didn't see it with most. To me a visual test would be much more obvious. If it's flash broken you can clearly see it. Maybe I'm missing something?
Are you going to Gillette this year? I've never been there due to distance but it being the 50th we're planning to make the trip.

There absolutely were instances of guys shooting juiced up "stuff" on the C line last year. However, based on the investigating we were able to do, none of it was sold by the vendors on site. All of it came from home. The issue I (and others) had with this guy was, he was like Chicken Little chasing every cake and every break and seeing "flash breaks" everywhere. It just didn't happen. Worse yet, he was convinced the vendors were selling them and he threatened numerous times to shut them down.

IF you can visually inspect a cake and you find it's "juiced"; and IF you can identify who sold it; only then should you take action and toss that vendor (or individual) out of the event. That's how I would approach the issue if I was king for a day.

Yes... I will be at PGI this year. Had my hotel reservations since last August! As you indicated, since it's the 50th anniversary show, it should be a good one.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

This is well said and true Rick. Without a decibel meter no one can truky say they hear a difference just by standing there and listening. Maybe in certain noises one can hear a difference in noise levels but it would be to hard to hear in 1.4 fireworks. Rick did anyone show him the reading from the app?

Many of us did. Didn't matter. He seemed hell bent on making a name for himself.

Having said that, at the end of the day, he didn't throw out any vendor or member. So it was all just a bunch of noise (pardon the pun).

[PyroJoeNEPA]

PGI should be renamed "PDI" for "Pyrotechnics Drama International". After the fiasco at PGI 2016 I [and the rest of our crew] decided we did not need to belong to such a regimented gaggle of complainers. The only way I would consider re-joining is if we were offered the G.P.D. to shoot.
I'm honored to have been able to be part of shooting shows there in both 2013 & 2016. But, boy, the "behind the scenes" drama---right, Dave? !

[chriskrc]

Many of us did. Didn't matter. He seemed hell bent on making a name for himself.

Having said that, at the end of the day, he didn't throw out any vendor or member. So it was all just a bunch of noise (pardon the pun).

That's a good thing he didn't throw out any vendors. Not sure the name he wanted to make for himself but truly wouldn't be a good one in the fireworks industry.

[cptnding]

There absolutely were instances of guys shooting juiced up "stuff" on the C line last year. However, based on the investigating we were able to do, none of it was sold by the vendors on site. All of it came from home. The issue I (and others) had with this guy was, he was like Chicken Little chasing every cake and every break and seeing "flash breaks" everywhere. It just didn't happen. Worse yet, he was convinced the vendors were selling them and he threatened numerous times to shut them down.

IF you can visually inspect a cake and you find it's "juiced"; and IF you can identify who sold it; only then should you take action and toss that vendor (or individual) out of the event. That's how I would approach the issue if I was king for a day.

Yes... I will be at PGI this year. Had my hotel reservations since last August! As you indicated, since it's the 50th anniversary show, it should be a good one.

Pretty sure I saw the guy you are talking about. I saw him bitching in several places. Ground salute line, ect. I attended Corbet's fireball class and the same guy nixed part of the demonstrations at the end.
Glad you're going to be out there. We made our plans in August as well lol. Hopefully I'll run into you again. Are you planning on working safety at the C line again?

[cptnding]

PGI should be renamed "PDI" for "Pyrotechnics Drama International". After the fiasco at PGI 2016 I [and the rest of our crew] decided we did not need to belong to such a regimented gaggle of complainers. The only way I would consider re-joining is if we were offered the G.P.D. to shoot.
I'm honored to have been able to be part of shooting shows there in both 2013 & 2016. But, boy, the "behind the scenes" drama---right, Dave? !

I honestly don't blame you Joe. We canceled plans for 2017 and did not attend. After plans were changed to allow normal vending in 2018 we went to the convention. I have no problem keeping myself distanced from any drama or that kind of bullshit but it's easy for me as I don't work on any displays or get involved in vending. It's really more of a family vacation of sorts for us. My wife and daughter both really enjoy it so I consider myself lucky in that regard. We attend a few classes, do some sight seeing, and watch the displays, open shooting, and competitions in the evening. The competitions are my favorite part. Some of those big shells are absolutely amazing. Not to mentions girandolas the size of a smart car lol!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Hopefully I'll run into you again. Are you planning on working safety at the C line again?

Yes Sir!! I'll be on the C line every night. Going to try and attend a few workshops again this year, but when the sun goes down, I'll be on the C line. Hope to see you there!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I'm honored to have been able to be part of shooting shows there in both 2013 & 2016. But, boy, the "behind the scenes" drama---right, Dave? !

I know what you mean Joe. There was another PGI bigshot guy who came over to us on day 1 and he said we're not allowed to let anyone shoot anything on the C line that wasn't purchased from the vendors. He actually posted a sign with words to that effect. (It got torn down after he left) I asked him how we're supposed to identify what comes from the vendors vs. from the back of someone's car. He told me "you'll see them walking from the direction of the vendor area." I actually laughed out loud at him. That's about the dumbest thing he could have said.