My ATF Information Appeal

[displayfireworks1]

I have an appeal in from an ATF information denial. I explain in this unlisted video
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdfe-zB1IZY
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3681&stc=1
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3682&stc=1
Appeal
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3683&stc=1

[Crush630]

Im still confused on why you want this information.

[displayfireworks1]

I left out the part when a citizen request information under the freedom of information laws , you never have to explain why you want the information. They are actually forbidden to ask you, why you are asking for the information. I know here locally where I live they will indirectly try to ask. For example they may say. What is it you are trying to accomplish, so I can point you in the right direct?. Or, others may say "I'm still confused why you want this information". Remember a request for governmental information never needs a reason why. It does however need to be very specific and clear and define what format you wish to receive the information. Paper formats sometimes have a nominal statutory cost.

[Crush630]

I left out the part when a citizen request information under the freedom of information laws , you never have to explain why you want the information. They are actually forbidden to ask you, why you are asking for the information. I know here locally where I live they will indirectly try to ask. For example they may say. What is it you are trying to accomplish, so I can point you in the right direct?. Or, others may say "I'm still confused why you want this information". Remember a request for governmental information never needs a reason why. It does however need to be very specific and clear and define what format you wish to receive the information. Paper formats sometimes have a nominal statutory cost.

Please check your messages

[Kenny East]

Surplus sales... They even give you forms during the interview. I hope you get your appeal. Those numbers dangerous...lol

[joewad]

I wish you could get the info you requested. I've been wanting to know for sometime how many FELs are in Indiana just out of plain ole curiosity.

[displayfireworks1]

I can tell you in 2012 there were 184 in the State of Indiana.
3 are in Lawrence County in the same town as you. Bedford In.

[joewad]

Many thanks......

[displayfireworks1]

I won the appeal
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx8VqhAOfeQ
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3704&stc=1

[displayfireworks1]

They responded as predicted. I need an online reference to the old ATF license number system. I explain in the video.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj-8IF0_FOA

[Robbro097]

Licenses
19 – Manufacturer of Theatrical Flash Powder
20 – Manufacturer of High Explosives
21 – Manufacturer of Low Explosives
22 – Manufacturer of Blasting Agents
23 – Importer of High Explosives
24 – Importer of Low Explosives
25 – Importer of Blasting Agents
26 – Dealer of High Explosives
27 – Dealer of Low Explosives
28 – Dealer of Blasting Agents
29 – Dealer of Black Powder
50 – Manufacturer of Fireworks
51 – Importer of Fireworks
53 – Dealer of Fireworks
Permits
33 – User of High Explosives
34 – User of Low Explosives
35 – User of Blasting Agents
36 – User (Limited) of High Explosives
37 – User (Limited) of Low Explosives
38 – User (Limited) of Blasting Agents
54 – User of Fireworks
55 – User (Limited) of Display Fireworks
60 – Limited Permittee
Expiration Code
The fifth set of characters, a number and a letter, refer to
the expiration date of the license or permit. The number
refers to the year that it expires, and the letter refers to
the month in which it expires, correlating from to A–M
(without using ‘I’). For example, a current license/permit
with 8H code expires August 1, 2018.
A – January
B – February
C – March
D – April
E – May
F – June
G – July
H – August
J – September

[Robbro097]

I found a pdf with all this stuff sounds like what ur looking for if i can figure out how to attach i will but was able to copy n paste

[Robbro097]

3711 hopefully this works lol

[Robbro097]

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/download-federal-explosives-industry-newsletters if that didnt work tgis is the link to the page u can download it from it was the 2017 explosives industry newsletter

[displayfireworks1]

At Robbro097: Thank you for posting the ATF license number and letter coding. I decided to post the list I received to the discussion forums. If you are a member of the discussion forums, you will need to log onto your user account to view the data. Use the numbers provided by Robbro097 to reference the ATF license type.
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I am going back to my win on appeal to demand a further breakdown of the data to state data by county for each state, territory and district of United States.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3714&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3715&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3716&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3717&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3718&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3719&stc=1

[displayfireworks1]

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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3720&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3721&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3722&stc=1

[Robbro097]

Happy i was able to help. I just got lucky finding it i did a quick search n came across an explosives news letter and didnt think itd have the info but thought ther might b sum good reading in it and luckily it had it. Kinda cool seeing all the different kind of explosives license/ pernits and what states have what

[displayfireworks1]

I want people to be aware , the ATF initially denied access to the information. It was only after I appealed the denial of information and prevailed , are they now releasing it. This may actually be the first time since 2012 anyone outside of the internal ATF in United States is viewing these numbers. Problem is , I have reason to suspect errors in some of the reported data.

[Robbro097]

It wouldnt b the 1st time feds have fudged the #s for 1 reason or another. I'm surprised the number of 33s users of high explosives has nearly 700 more ppl than 54s really interesting thanks for sharing

[displayfireworks1]

I received an update as my second appeal moves forward. I believe the recent government closure slowed the process down temporarily. To bring it up to speed , I won the appeal when the ATF denied me access to the license data. The appeal was won in full. however the ATF did not fully comply with the order. While they released the explosive license data information for each state, they did not break the numbers down per state AND county as per the original request. If you have been following this you may remember I predicted they were not going to fully comply with the order and I would have to go back and tell the Administrative Judge they did not fully follow the order.
One of the few strategies I am using at this next step in the appeal process is including at least one page from the 2012 ATF Explosive license holder list in my possession. That list has the complete name, COUNTY , full address and phone number of every ATF Explosive license holder in United States and its territories. While that original list was scattered and parts of it coded, particularly in referencing the license holders county. It does exist in some fashion. I included that one page to prevent the future response from being "He is asking for a listing that does not exist". When you request something like this you can not make them create a list where no list exist. I have documentation that a list does exist, I suspect this is how they determine the applicants catchment area for each regional ATF state industry operations location. I also included some other strategies in the appeal. The hope is I will win again and receive the requested county data for each state as per the original appeal order.
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Redacted in part
This message is to notify you of a new appeal submission to the FOIAonline application. Appeal information is as follows:

Appeal Tracking Number: DOJ-AP-2019-002XXXX
Request Tracking Number: 2019-02XXX
Requester Name: David Dxxxxxxxx
Date Submitted: 01/28/2019
Appeal Status: Submitted
Description: ATF Remanded Appeal

[cptnding]

Why does PA have so many 54 holders? I'm curious.
Over twice as many as any other state and exponentially more than the majority of states.

[Robbro097]

Just a guess but 1 thats where daves at and he seems to do more for getting ppl setup than any1. 2 they have a great selection of 1.3 distributors. 3 from what i understand about the state 1.3 useage is up to each i dividual city/townships and many of the smaller townships dont require permits or have a process regarding theyr use. 4 kellners and firearts open shoots gives the rest a place/chance to shoot the good stuff. Just a guess but makes sense to me

[displayfireworks1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6NwPz4m-58
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4455&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4456&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4457&stc=1
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[Arclight]

This is very interesting. I note that my State (CA) has very few type 53/54 licenses, but a lot of type 20. I suspect this has to do with the fact that the level of effort needed to get any type of licensed activity done is quite high, so going for a type 20 just makes sense. For a blaster or special-effects tech, being able to manufacture product at time-of-use gets around a massive headache with transportation.

Here, we trigger the full placard, CDL, permit and $5M motor carrier insurance requirement with ANY amount of class 1.3, 1.2 or 1.1 product, regardless of whether it is in commerce or not.

From the response, I take it that you were not able to get a breakdown by individual county?

[displayfireworks1]

I have the county data for each state but it is dated. It's from 2012. I believe that motor carrier insurance you are referencing is required the same across the country for those in business.

[Arclight]

I believe you're right about business use. But I think "not in commerce" is a viable way to transport personal items in other states if not making money?

The 2012 county data for California would be interesting if it's possible to post here.

[displayfireworks1]

California 2012 ATF license data by county.
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Alameda-1
Los Angeles -1
Monterey-2
Orange-1
Placer-1
Santa Clara-1
Santa Cruz-1
Tulare-2
Yolo-1
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