Heard but not Confirmed Skylighter

[displayfireworks1]

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I am getting reports of Skylighter going out of business. I looked on their website and do not see anything listed. Does anyone have some information on this?

[BhadDawg]

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I am getting reports of Skylighter going out of business. I looked on their website and do not see anything listed. Does anyone have some information on this?

got an email saying so.

Hey,

It's official: Skylighter is closing. For Real.

Accordingly, everything is for sale at 55% off.

You can get everything on the Skylighter.com website 55% off by using the Promo Code FIRESALE55 .

LIMITED QUANTITIES of everything

Starting today, every couple of days, we will announce a new fire sale. Each new sale will have a 5% higher discount than the last one.

So, for example: last week's sale was 50% off. Today's sale is 55% off. The next one will be 60% off, and so on. Until everything is sold.

Now, if you wait, you might get a deeper discount. But since stuff is selling out every day, you might not. This is a sale which appeals to percrasterbaters, and penalizes the hell out of ‘em!

Meanwhile, you can get a great deal on what's left at Skylighter by going here, and using Promo Code FIRESALE55.

Have fun, and shop til either you or we drop!

Yours in flames,

Harry Gilliam
Chief Cook & Bottlewasher

PS: This is the real, official, from-the-horse's-mouth announcement that Skylighter is closing. It is not fake news. Everything at Skylighter is being fire-saled. Today and tomorrow, you can get 55% off whatever is left here. Be sure and use Promo Code FIRESALE55.

[displayfireworks1]

Thank you for posting that information. I remember he announced a couple of years back he was trying to sell the business. I have a few theories on why this is occurring. My theory has nothing to do with the ATF or any government agency causing this. Anyone care to speculate?

[Rocketshooter]

Apparently no one wanted to but it.

[displayfireworks1]

My thoughts have nothing to do with the sell/value of his business. It is about the overall decline in desire to make fireworks, why that has occurred and what it may or may not mean to future direction of the hobbyist pyrotechnics market. Slylighter closing is a reflection of ?????? . Or is a reflection of nothing ???????

[matandch]

Maybe Harry just wants to retire.

[yoshisbar]

2 takes on this, and dave forgive me if this infringes on some rules on mentions of other sellers of product.
I think it is a reflection of not worth the risks of the oversight, that I think is going to get worse, for profit that is not worth the work, from selling everything you need to blow something up, and selling it to ANYONE.. no questions ask...
I have a few different places I used to get products from, before I got my ATF license. CLICK buy Potassium chlorate, fuse, hemi shells and such!
But I can tell you most of those places have gone out of business, or changed drastically the way they do things...
2 places, skylighter and also Hobby chemical supply appear to be gone.

Another place is cannonfuse.com. Have bought for years, rolls of fuse 100ft- 600 ft and such,TIME FUSE even (time fuse has ALWAYS said to be regulated but never enforced), But now he has gone to PACKAGED cut lengths of fuse, because technically that is the rule, (just never enforced again!)
I have even seen others that have stopped selling certain chemicals altogether, (the boom ones) some of Dave's advertiser's also!
And with so many state legalizing fireworks, I guess the old timers that used to make the fireworks are getting far and few...

[vegassalute]

The promo code doesn't seem to work. It appears to have expired yesterday.

[displayfireworks1]

The very people that are some of the better fireworks makers are partially responsible for causing others to loose interest or never have an interest. They are holding on too tight to it and isolating themselves in small groups and Special Tents. A majority of them feel they have a special status that none of us can ever accomplish. Of course there are exceptions , but no exceptions in the upper hierarchy that I am seeing. You saw the pressure they put on my one chemical advertiser to drop off of my website in the middle of a paid in full advertising contract and turning a profit. If Skylighter closes and no one takes it over, that speak volumes to me. When no one takes over an established 20 plus year business that is not a good sign. You retire from a job , you don't retire from a profitable business, you sell it and someone else continues it.
The other reasons are the ATF license and firing system advancements. I helped dispose of a few fireworks chemical caches over the years shorty after they are ATF licensed and can purchase 1.3 fireworks. Once someone gets rolling with an ATF license and a firing system, they quickly lose the desire to make fireworks and concentrate more on buying 1.3 fireworks and shooting displays. That is if they made any fireworks at all prior to becoming licensed beyond a simple device or salute.
Maybe I am reading too much into this closure. However I see the future fireworks enthusiast looking more like our display company counterparts than I do looking like our old fireworks builders from 30 years ago. Most of our counterparts stopped making fireworks years ago. I think we are heading in that direct also. I keep looking and waiting to add a fireworks chemical distributor or someone wanting to promote making fireworks but it never seem to happen.

[vegassalute]

The very people that are some of the better fireworks makers are partially responsible for causing others to loose interest or never have an interest. They are holding on too tight to it and isolating themselves in small groups and Special Tents. A majority of them feel they have a special status that none of us can ever accomplish. Of course there are exceptions , but no exceptions in the upper hierarchy that I am seeing. You saw the pressure they put on my one chemical advertiser to drop off of my website in the middle of a paid in full advertising contract and turning a profit. If Skylighter closes and no one takes it over, that speak volumes to me. When no one takes over an established 20 plus year business that is not a good sign. You retire from a job , you don't retire from a profitable business, you sell it and someone else continues it.
The other reasons are the ATF license and firing system advancements. I helped dispose of a few fireworks chemical caches over the years shorty after they are ATF licensed and can purchase 1.3 fireworks. Once someone gets rolling with an ATF license and a firing system, they quickly lose the desire to make fireworks and concentrate more on buying 1.3 fireworks and shooting displays. That is if they made any fireworks at all prior to becoming licensed beyond a simple device or salute.
Maybe I am reading too much into this closure. However I see the future fireworks enthusiast looking more like our display company counterparts than I do looking like our old fireworks builders from 30 years ago. Most of our counterparts stopped making fireworks years ago. I think we are heading in that direct also. I keep looking and waiting to add a fireworks chemical distributor or someone wanting to promote making fireworks but it never seem to happen.

I hope you're incorrect but I fear you are correct. To me, its extraordinarily rewarding to learn a new manufacturing technique and then apply it. I hope someone buys this enterprise. I would be willing to talk with the owner about an acquisition if he/she is interested. I agree, a chemical distributor that focuses on education would be a great complement to Pyro Talk. It's a shame that he/she is allowing all that brand equity to die in closing the business.

[matandch]

MAPAG and FPAG are two clubs that are almost exclusively dedicated towards builders. So the craft is being promoted and passed on.

[displayfireworks1]

From a business perspective it has to be difficult to survive just supplying small fringe groups with tools and chemicals. It needs to be moved more towards mainstream fireworks enthusiast. Most of the literature and video material for sale is from 30 plus years ago, and not very exciting. If I remember correctly when Skylighter was trying to sell the business he said most of his customers were professional organizations and even governmental organizations. I talked with a person wanting to start a fireworks chemical supply business, his business strategy was to supply these current small groups with supplies. I told him he will fail, most of them probably already have all the chemicals they need and have multiple other sources that are cheaper. The better plan is the new enthusiast. I think Skylighter was on the right track with Turbo-Pyro and black-powder kits etc. You get some of that on video and out there and I bet it would stimulate new interest. My suggestion is , instead of letting these fringe group fireworks makers control your business practice , step away and reach out to the new advancing pyrotechnic enthusiast. Because if you keep trying to hold onto these fringe groups and abide by their philosophy you will probably fail anyway.

[yoshisbar]

Here is the email I got today..

Skylighter's 4th Going-Out of-Business fire Sale--70% off anything, if it's still in stock.

Everything at Skylighter.com is now 70% off. Use Promo Code FIRESALE70.

WARNING: Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee you will get what you order. Products are selling out every day. If something runs out, we will have to drop it from your order. Sorry.

Skylighter will be closing its doors in a few weeks. Everything is deeply discounted, so we can clear everything out of the warehouse, which is also for sale

SO I DID what any pyro would do! ORDER SOMETHING!!

GUESS WHAT DAVE I GOT 1000!! YES 1000FT of Shooting wire!!! NOT telephone wire REAL fireworks wire (and a bunch of other stuff also) BUT I only paid $17 for the wire!! lol

[displayfireworks1]

Glad to hear you have some shooting wire. I guess the right deal came along for you.

[zzzybil]

It needs to be moved more towards mainstream fireworks enthusiast. Most of the literature and video material for sale is from 30 plus years ago, and not very exciting. WELLLLLLLLLL COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE

Dave I don't think what you are calling the elite or fringe is a fair observation BY ANY STRETCH . My experience has been thoughtful encouragement and willingness to help the next generation learn . I took a coupla shell building classes @ pgi and was bit by the bug . But beyond the legalities - the ART of fireworking is an incredibly complex and dangerous hobby. Serious study ,thoughtful consideration and mentors to guide the new enthusiast that sincerely wants to learn IS A MONUMENTAL TASK ....... it's never going to be mainstream or for the ''average joe'' imo. It requires a dedication to the knowledge and safety aspect , and a ridiculous amount of patience and time. yOUR AVERAGE ENTHUSIAST is not interested in the time to study and learn - they want a box ready made

It's the current climate of the country , common sense being a super power , and an instant gratification mindest. I really don't have a clue but I've heard Harry has spent a few small and large fortunes staying legal !! and liability these days - homeland security and complications that didn't exist before 9/11 plague any effort in this arena.
As far as the literature and videos being 30 years old ??????? and NOT EXCITING ???? We're talking about traditional building techniques that are sometimes centuries old . This unexciting material in your opinion is a GOLD MINE . It breaks my heart that Harry's lifetime wealth of painstaking and valuable accumulation of information offerred freely ( which would take years of research and ridiculous sums to gather personally ) is about to be lost . It's like a magical library is about to burn down and we watch helplessly
I think , just my opinion that as we lose small freedoms so slowly as to not notice - this is just an old guy retiring from a business that will be extinct for all intents and purposes in the younger members here's lifetimes. The goverment protecting us from ourselves makes it ridiculous to invest in such a business that tomorrow might be illegal . I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed people from other countries do not have access to the freedoms in purchasing chems that we have . I suspect that will go away here too. Hope not ---- but if you look at cpsc etc etc the temperment and "" the writing on the wall "" ????????

Hats off to HARRY and other heros of the tradition......... It's an art that will never die....... but for this enthusiast a dream beyond my scope and comfort zone. There are other suppliers for chems out there ..........but NONE none none NONE WITH THE FREE online LIBRARY about to be lost......
Not recognising that ??????????? alluding it's old and unexciting is .........I must have misunderstood ?????

[displayfireworks1]

Have you looked at the current DVD's for sale that talk about making fireworks? They have to be 25 plus years old and dated. Of course now we have YouTube . Type in Making Fireworks in YouTube and see what shows up, not much. There is small core group of amateur fireworks makers holding it back. It is similar to the resistance I received when I started to promote the ATF license and advancement into 1.3 products. There are pyrotechnic groups out there that think they are the only ones competent enough to use 1.3 fireworks. Now years later we see new 1.3 enthusiast putting on displays that rival professional companies. If making fireworks is properly promoted , you would see something very similar occur. New enthusiast would enter into the hobby and most likely advance past the current self proclaimed All Star groups. New regional groups would form and new suppliers will follow.
If someone new is going to step forward to promote making fireworks they will have break through the resistance from these current established fireworks maker groups, the government and these imaginary anti-fireworks organizations will be the easiest to overcome. A new direction is needed. I am just waiting for the right person to come along and do it.

[matandch]

It's going to be a tough haul. We're in a new day with many more demands on our time and interests. Even traditional pastimes such as fishing, hunting, golf and tennis have seen a significant decline in participation in the last decade.

[zzzybil]

Have you looked at the current DVD's for sale that talk about making fireworks? They have to be 25 plus years old and dated. Of course now we have YouTube . Type in Making Fireworks in YouTube and see what shows up, not much. There is small core group of amateur fireworks makers holding it back. It is similar to the resistance I received when I started to promote the ATF license and advancement into 1.3 products. There are pyrotechnic groups out there that think they are the only ones competent enough to use 1.3 fireworks. Now years later we see new 1.3 enthusiast putting on displays that rival professional companies. If making fireworks is properly promoted , you would see something very similar occur. New enthusiast would enter into the hobby and most likely advance past the current self proclaimed All Star groups. New regional groups would form and new suppliers will follow.
If someone new is going to step forward to promote making fireworks they will have break through the resistance from these current established fireworks maker groups, the government and these imaginary anti-fireworks organizations will be the easiest to overcome. A new direction is needed. I am just waiting for the right person to come along and do it.

Have you looked at the current DVD's for sale that talk about making fireworks? They have to be 25 plus years old and dated. Of course now we have YouTube . Type in Making Fireworks in YouTube and see what shows up, not much. There is small core group of amateur fireworks makers holding it back.
YES and I've bought a small collection too . I don't think they are holding it back - more like holding it TOGETHER .... What I've learned is there is a whole lot more to learn than I EVER IMAGINED . There are a few old timers that can barely spell but for the most part I see the fireworking peeps as a highly intelligent articulate bunch with a huge respect for SAFETY and TRADITION . I found that the more I explored what you call outdated information the healthier my respect for the skills and knowledge they possess .

The chemistry is mind boggling complicated for the uninitiated and the dangers sobering......... which chemicals are compatible with each other , which will combust or ignite together or when simply wet.....A year of reading and I get oxidizers , fuels , color agents , chlorine donors ,binders etc etc confused. Which combinations are more sensitive and likely to combust simply by wetting , confinement , combination or spontaneous ignition from the static electricity you generate while doing nothing or screwing on a shaker lid trapping particles and introducing inadvertent friction .

Just my opinion but you do a dis service advising just watching a youtube video would make someone competent. You are right they discourage kewl bombers & hold my beer types ...... AND in my lil limited experience BEND OVER BACKWARDS to help the serious novice. There's no resistance other than protecting an endangered art. Pyros in general in my experience are a generous and loyal lot - they go out their way to help each other . I've found the ''elites'' to be equally generous if not more so. That's just my experience and I've got nothing but BIG RESPECT for their magic mad skilz

.They hold the ART in much higher esteem and almost have a reverence for what you see as old & dated. Some consider some of this OLD STUFF of ridiculous imeasureable value for the new generation.-> dead guys that 1st put into books and written word - works by old masters BIBLES of pyrotechnic genius and the passing on of centuries of studies . Highly skilled guys that passed on learning skills on a cd however long ago ARE VALUABLE and to think not ????????? I don't understand . THESE arts and methods are centuries old. It's not like the chemistry has changed tho safer combinations and techniques exist .......... The learning curve is TREMENDOUS ......... poo poo'n anything out there people have offered to pass on knowledge as outdated ??- YUP times have changed , the haters and legalities are not imaginary....

...... NEWbies are not going to surpass the all stars without guidance,teachers or this ''old dated info'' . There's no resistance to overcome other than the time involved ,learning curve,complex chemistry , legalities and the comfort zone of exploring explosives. It's quite a bit different than just the option buying a ''B'' cake.........

New enthusiast would enter into the hobby and most likely advance past the current self proclaimed All Star groups. New regional groups would form and new suppliers will follow. what a ridiculous mind set .........who do you think would teach them ? where would they get the info ? the skills ? TRUE FIREWORKERS are an aging resource to be respected and treasured......whatever they pass on is treasure !
wadda yuh think - some planet of the apes scenario - everything is gone and the new masses start from scratch re inventing black powder ?

IDK if you got your feelings hurt tripping in with cameras and video making , fondling works they spent weeks or months on ? but your views are not my experience.
It breaks my heart the info about to be lost if the skylighter site goes down . IDK if you yourself have ever taken actual ''building'' seriously ...... if so I can't tell . It's a beotch finding resources ok free resources , while some can be found the books are pricey and there's nothing like a cd to WATCH over and over ........boring to some maybe but a different dimension than just printed words - I can read something over and over and still not understand - clearly watching a technique on a cd helps comprehension tremendously. pretty sure the techniques are ancient

And as a - CD seller yourself ? IDK - a guy with sooooo much influence ------ so negative & naive ........How old is your cd - everything on it is available free except maybe personal opinions . My money says if I were a betting person - the old ''building'' cds are as valuable today as the day they were made, fireworks building has not changed ->the exciting part is the 5 seconds after days,weeks,months of tedious concentration - the satisfaction in yup I built that Not much different than your hand holding walk with your old cd - a lil guidance through unexplored territory.

HAHA not tryin to tick you off - just avoiding gettin out in the heat and ridin the mower....... I don't hate Harry retiring - LOSING that site tho .....SUCKS........... hope that wealth - lifetime accumulation is not lost........

[Kenny East]

While i am saddened to see skylighter go out of business, there are many other sources for hobby fireworks makers out there.. I enjoy watching videos of making on YouTube and some are great, some are terrible, and others are just dangerous. I think Dave has it at least a little correct on his belief that a lot of shell builders don't like to share details, or hold back. There are many who take the time to show, teach and answer questions. It's not a big hobby, and with no one passing on the tradition, and given the current climate in todays world view of buying chemicals... I can understand no one wanting to buy a business that caters to such a market.
One of the main reasons i got a user permit was to legally transport my homemade shells to my shoot site. Even with a user permit there are shells that you just can't buy or are very expensive... Timed report shells are one of my favorite shells, yet very few distributors near me have them... So it's building them like "the rocket man" does... Slightly different but i have my preferred method. I think the hobby will survive as long as they don't shut down all YouTube videos on fireworks making, as well as a few other sites dedicated to making fireworks.

[deepdixie1979]

Nobody wants to invest a pile of cash in a business that could be shuttered tomorrow by the Feds. Skylighter was the focus of a costly investigation that could have shut it down back in the mid 2000's, had they not the resources to fight back. This is the same witch hunt that nearly drove Firefox out of business and restricted their ability to sell many common chemicals in pyro. There is talk of the excellent information pages on Skylighter remaining available on the web for a fee. I hope this is the case.

There are newer vendors out there now such as Fireworks Cookbook who offer much, much lower prices than Skylighter ever had. Skylighter is a good resource for newbies, but once you have been around the hobby for awhile, you learn to source materials from other vendors for far less money.

Not everyone is into doing nothing but buying Chinese made stuff and setting it off at club events. I rarely ever buy 1.3 just to set it off when my club gathers. Building pyro is my hobby. I take great satisfaction in turning raw materials into a beautiful 4 or 6 inch shell. There are some good resources out there for those who are interested in learning to build Fireworks. I wouldn't say that any of this information is some guarded secret held by just a handful of folks. Fireworking.com is a great place to learn the craft. There are many seasoned pyro vets there who readily answer the questions of the newbies. My club, FPAG, is a builders club. We offer seminars to help beginners learn how to build an aerial shell.

In this day pursuits and hobbies that deliver instant gratification seem to be the most popular. While building pyro doesn't deliver instant gratification, the end result of days, weeks and months of work are quite rewarding.

[yoshisbar]

Interesting e-mail I received today...

Skylighter IS BACK,
....well, we are coming back soon!

Hello fireworks makers, my name is Mike Gerson. I'm a fireworks maker and member of the PGI and WPA and now the proprietor of Skylighter.

[displayfireworks1]

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I'm not sure who he is, if he plans on marketing his goods only to that secretive established fireworks making group he may not do well. The real customer is the new inexperienced fireworks enthusiast. Although looking back, I helped multiple newly ATF licensed fireworks enthusiast dispose/transfer of their fireworks chemical collection once they realize they can purchase commercially made fireworks very easily with an ATF license.
Years ago, back when Harry and Skylighter were popular, advancing fireworks enthusiast looked and behaved like the pyro's of the past. Measuring chemicals , reading fireworks formula literature , testing composition and projects etc. Today, the advancing pyro enthusiast looks and behaves more like a professional display company. Using fireworks firing systems , using electric match, using multiple racks, designing displays on computer software , shooting fireworks to music and carrying advanced credentials like an ATF license. One of the issues since 2003 is, while you do not need an ATF license to make fireworks for your own use, as soon as you leave your own property to take it somewhere to shoot it, you need some form of an ATF license to transport it off of your property. If I remember correctly, Harry at Skylighter said most of premium customers were schools,universities and government agencies.
I'm waiting for a fireworks maker to come forward and break free of that secretive established special PGI tent group and bring it mainstream, then it may or may not head in a new direction.

[Elisabeth]

Dave,
I've been to the last four PGI conventions, and as a builder for the last three. Overall, I have never experienced anything like a "secretive, established special PGI tent group". People are generally very helpful and and if anything, passionately enthusiastic. I wonder if you've had some poor experiences and are generalizing that as "what's typical".
As for the level of hobbyist interest in building, I think it's growing. I know one of the main suppliers of tooling, and he can hardly keep up with demand.

[displayfireworks1]

I'm glad your experience with fireworks building at the PGI is positive. All i can tell you is someone scared off my last fireworks chemical supplier advertiser in the middle of his contract with me while he was making a profit. And it was not the ATF or any non existent anti fireworks group. I'm ready to add a fireworks chemical supplier and accessories distributor to pyrotalk anytime they want to sign up.

[Fireworks Cookbook]

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And many others