Oregon License/storage magazine questions

[aerialpyro]

I asked some of this in a email over a week ago, but haven't received a response so lets see if someone on the forum can help.


On the magazine part of the form, it asks for the distance to the nearest storage magazine even if you don't own it. I suspect that is on the order of miles. What should I put on the form in that field?

I haven't found any contingency storage available in my area, so I have to figure out some form of storage. I currently don't need a large volume of storage space, but will probably need a very small amount of type 1 or 2 storage in the near future. For this reason, I am currently favoring a smaller type 1 or 2 magazine instead of a larger shipping container. My terrain is very flat, but I do have the required distance available. What sort of inexpensive magazine ideas do you guys have?

[displayfireworks1]

Look back over your post, you falling into the 50 questions category real quick. Your post and plans are scattered. You are not presenting yourself or your intentions very well. Let narrow it down to one question.

[aerialpyro]

Ok, here is the one question... Where can I find more info on getting licensed when I can't get contingency storage?

Background

Start rant:
Since I first registered on here, you seem to have judged me wrong. Yes, I have asked a lot of questions. I did make one mess of my first two posts due to trying to finish posting when I didn't have enough time. I do like to dream, but I also like to get things done. I am serious about pursuing getting licensed with or without your help. This is a part of an entrepreneurial project that I am currently working full time on. Please don't judge and mistake me for what I am not. Not every fireworks enthusiast and hobbyist fits your mold of thinking, especially not the aspiring fireworks engineer. I tried to have this conversation via email, but got no reply. Please help make this another success story for your site, instead of a pointless failure. I am actually trying to make you money in the long run here... Don't drive away a potential future advertiser for your site.
End Rant

I ordered your DVD and watched both of them. While you do talk to people who have done their own magazines and show a few tips, you don't cover the magazine form in any close detail. I understand this when most of your customers are able to get contingency storage, but it doesn't work for me. I have practically everything ready to send in for my application, except for a few fields on the magazine portion and the actual magazine hardware.

My intentions are to build and test some simple fireworks process and handling machines. I want to be able to manufacture, purchase, handle, store, and test fireworks compositions both on their own and while being handled by the machines. This work will be performed for compensation, so just a part 54 won't do. Any destructive testing of course will be done using an appropriate safe location and method. I hesitate to share many more specifics then that because excess detail often sidetracks from the ability to discuss and learn about the portion I need to learn more about. I am happy to elaborate only as required.

From my understanding, I need to get the equivalent of a part 20 license for what I want to do. Is that possible to do without dropping $4000 on a magazine? I need to do this as inexpensively as possible, but if there is no other option I will have to come up with some rational for the expenditure.

Again, let's boil this down to a single question for you that will encompass what I need to know.

Where can I find the info I need on getting licensed on a budget where contingency storage isn't available?

[displayfireworks1]

Ok excuse me a minute..... Dear Lord please grant me the patience to deal with this dude for at least two to three more post. Amen
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Now I'm ready.
Post a Google Earth picture of your home and/or property. Get a close up making the image borders the borders of the property line showing the next closest home. From the sky down type of image.
How many miles are you from Please Hill Oregon?
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Let start with those two things

[aerialpyro]

Ok excuse me a minute..... Dear Lord please grant me the patience to deal with this dude for at least two to three more post. Amen
.
Now I'm ready.
Post a Google Earth picture of your home and/or property. Get a close up making the image borders the borders of the property line showing the next closest home. From the sky down type of image.
How many miles are you from Please Hill Oregon?
.
Let start with those two things

I will make a more detailed map for the ATF, and can PM it to you if you like. I removed the road names to post here. The final version will have more annotations once I have the final magazine location locked down. My property is the darker shaded part in the middle.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2604&stc=1

The house is on the middle southern end of the property. There is a small outbuilding nearby, but it has electrical power electronics inside and small doors. The neighbor's house is over 400ft away and the location is 150ft from my house next to an unused horse shelter. Our property measures 490ft by 1360ft and covers 14.5 acres. The land is zoned EFU, so the likelihood of additional structures going in on the plot next door is very low because it is a farming zone and a separate plot then the one the neighbor's house is on. The county doesn't care about explosive storage on my property.

I am outside of any local or rural fire districts, so the only local fire/law enforcement authority is the county sheriff.

Please Hill... Pleasant Hill, OR is 357 miles away. The closest 1.3 dealer that isn't an advertiser on here yet are still 250+ miles away.

You don't have to walk me through every single step as I think I have most of them worked out, but I am happy to answer answer as many questions as you need to ask to be able to help.

[displayfireworks1]

Is this the property location I have pictured here? Also tell that kid to stop riding that Quad all over that field.
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Which one of the cities is close to you?

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bend (https://bend.craigslist.org/)
corvallis/albany (https://corvallis.craigslist.org/)
east oregon (https://eastoregon.craigslist.org/)
eugene (https://eugene.craigslist.org/)
klamath falls (https://klamath.craigslist.org/)
medford-ashland (https://medford.craigslist.org/)
oregon coast (https://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/)
portland (https://portland.craigslist.org/)
roseburg (https://roseburg.craigslist.org/)
salem (https://salem.craigslist.org/)

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2605&stc=1

[aerialpyro]

Someone did some sleuthing... For a minute, I was trying to figure out how you found it yourself on google earth. Then I remembered you have the shipping address. Yes, that is the place. Those aren't quad tracks. That was a wheat field that is too rocky to cut the straw short. I think that year they used a combine pulling a one ton baler. Much of the straw was left standing with some fire breaks disked around the outside. Some of the more dense tracks are from the semi trucks that the combine offloaded to or the forklift that collected the straw bales. The rest is probably from the gator the farmer drives around on when changing sprinklers.

Those links aren't cities. Technically the east oregon craigslist is the correct one, even though most people around here use the kpr craigslist.

[aerialpyro]

Shipping containers in my area have gone up $1000 in the last year...

[Northern Sky]

Good luck getting this all figured out. My signature has a link to getting legal. Take a look.

[aerialpyro]

Good luck getting this all figured out. My signature has a link to getting legal. Take a look.

I am pursuing a type 20 mainly because I watched that video and want to work with some experimental compositions. It seems to me like most of the outdoor magazines end up starting around $4k regardless of size. I just need to figure out the least expensive building materials as I will probably have to build one myself. I just need enough storage that will let me store stars, black powder, a few grams of flash, and other compositions needed to build a few test shells. That should give me enough information to justify the higher expense of a larger magazine or two.

[displayfireworks1]

I made sure the picture is minus identifying details. You are talking around the real problem that you have, and that is no funding. You have a nice piece of property. If I had that property in my back yard, I would be in the 1.3 business. If you lack funds then you have to use labor and ingenuity like people do in other aspects of their life that want to get things done. Search Craigslist, government auction sites ask friends and family to help you build a magazine, that sort of thing. If you are not able to do this now perhaps you can do it in the future. No amount of talking and posting future plans and dreams can solve this. We are talking all around it. The little bit I am reading on the internet appears to be the State of Oregon accepts the ATF guidelines for explosive storage. You are putting all you plans and dreams ahead of the next step. Now slow down and concentrate on what is required to store explosive material. What is that unattached building next to the house? You can probably get a job box type magazine going in that building. That is a great piece of property, you either have to spend some money or do some work and you can solve this. If someone else has some advice on this please post something.

[aerialpyro]

I made sure the picture is minus identifying details. You are talking around the real problem that you have, and that is no funding. You have a nice piece of property. If I had that property in my back yard, I would be in the 1.3 business. If you lack funds then you have to use labor and ingenuity like people do in other aspects of their life that want to get things done. Search Craigslist, government auction sites ask friends and family to help you build a magazine, that sort of thing. If you are not able to do this now perhaps you can do it in the future. No amount of talking and posting future plans and dreams can solve this. We are talking all around it. The little bit I am reading on the internet appears to be the State of Oregon accepts the ATF guidelines for explosive storage. You are putting all you plans and dreams ahead of the next step. Now slow down and concentrate on what is required to store explosive material. What is that unattached building next to the house? You can probably get a job box type magazine going in that building. That is a great piece of property, you either have to spend some money or do some work and you can solve this. If someone else has some advice on this please post something.

Thanks, I appreciate the care in preparing the image.

You kind of almost nailed it here. It is about money. I do have access to funds, but the expenditure has to be justified by potential for revenue either directly or indirectly which is hard to determine without a few basic explosive tests. That could come from what I actually want to design, or other things developed along the way. I will probably end up building something, but there are so many options to explore that I am hopeful some on here have suggestions on where to start. Right now I am thinking a small job box sized type 2 magazine maximizing on materials I have on hand, as that would provide the most flexibility.

That outbuilding is an old stick building on top of a cement cellar. The problem is there are pump controller power electronics for two wells down there also and the entrance is small. One of the wells is just on a super old disconnect switch/fuse setup and I can't find any documentation on it. I could see something inside the upper part if I tamed all the ancient wiring that is currently exposed. Another indoor option is if I relocate the old smokehouse and replace the timbers it is sitting on.

I have spent a decent amount of time reading the Oregon regulations. While they practically gut consumer fireworks, it isn't actually that bad for 1.3. Especially for manufacturers of 1.3, as display permits aren't required for manufacture testing. Insurance for permitted a display is also left up to the local jurisdiction, unlike the state mandate Washington has.

When I choose a goal like this, one of the first things I do is to figure out all the ways it may fail or not work and how to overcome/avoid them. The questions I have asked have been to help identify these failure modes and gather advice from as many a possible to help guide me through the sea of possibilities to a viable route and solution. If anyone has experience with this stuff please chime in, otherwise I will do my best and share the results.

Any clue how the ATF might respond if I decide to try a small weather/fire/bullet resistant type 2 box for the potentially high explosives to be kept in a type 4 magazine for security? I know a while ago I saw some variances for lesser locking mechanisms for magazines that are kept in areas that are already considered secure. I will have to look that up again...

[displayfireworks1]

I hope you understand, but this road is closed. I answered your question. You know what you have to do. We are not going into hypothetical reality any longer on this post or your other post. Get to work on that magazine. That last sentence in your post has me worried. Actually I am feeling uncomfortable about all this and see it wasting other peoples energy as well as mine. I'm going to give you a week vacation from the forums to think about all you have posted thus far.

[pyrotech5]

Helping the enthusiast by banning them this place never changes

[displayfireworks1]

Look over thy 17 post naive. You do that by clicking on your name in the above post, then click on "View Forum Post". I think I got an accurate read on him and you both.

[aerialpyro]

I just found out today that I have a friend that has started a display company just a half hour from me! Contingency is now an option in NE OR and SE WA.


Helping the enthusiast by banning them this place never changes

Dave, this might just be the reason some people are against what you do here even though I believe you have the best of intentions. Some day soon I hope to show you that you shouldn't be so quick to judge people. Just because you have had bad experiences with people of a certain personality type doesn't mean all of them will act irresponsibly. Some may even go on to do great things and leave you behind as a result.

[displayfireworks1]

Wow , this post is from three months ago. That's great news, best of luck to you.