Was bought at the PGI 2016

[displayfireworks1]

The report to me is, this was purchased at the PGI convention in 2016, in the Consumer Fireworks section for $5.00. The authorities are accusing the PGI convention of being a conduit for illegal fireworks activity. The more you look at it, the worst it gets. Where are the security people in all of this ???? Have the people in charge of safety and security been replaced????? Should they be replaced???
Other than new vendors selling consumer fireworks what else has changed?????
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLKOnKLrdUQ
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[countryboy7978]

With all due respect.... I think this person is full of BS. I know and deal with 95% of the vendors that were there and I always look for the best product and so do my friends and colleagues. Nobody I know of was offered any homemade/bootleg product by any registered Class C vendor. You can have your source PM me privately to discuss if he so desires. He may very well have been offered something like this by an individual but suggesting that a registered vendor was selling this type of item to me is irresponsible and unfair without solid proof. These vendors, regardless of their advertiser status have been extremely loyal to the PGI and have provided its members and the organization with donations both monitary and product based. They support us for the 4F night dinners, they donate to the JPA and donate product for the little ones' scavenger hunts and I see no reason to cast a shadow worse than what the PGI has already cast on their own. That being said I am more than willing to carry on a civil discussion about this topic provided no names are used publicly. We owe that to the vendors who have supported us all these years.

[displayfireworks1]

I started my post with reported to me. I really do not know. The report appears creditable because it mentioned other details, I omitted the details in the video. I would try to get more details however, the more I think about it, I am not sure if I want to get more details. I am not going to reveal my sources, so where it goes from here is unknown.
I earlier said the only people hurt from all of this are the companies that sell fireworks at the convention. That safety and security leadership in the PGI needs to go. If this occurred in a private enterprise. the leadership would be gone. There too busy trying to stop me under some bullshit safety guise. Bring in a new safety and security leadership team is one of the first things you do when this type of thing occurs. The organization needs revitalized.

[jknepp1954]

I totally agree with Countryboy. We was there from the beginning.
There is 2 kinds of vending going on at PGI.
1. The legit vendors in the building/tents who pay their fees/insurance/paid help etc. you will NEVER find that there. Heck I didn't even vend this year - but delivered a couple orders on the way out - so I helped contribute to the FFFF dinners.
2. The parking lot vendors - selling out of trunks of cars, vans, trucks who do not give Jack Squat about anything....

Just my ever so humble insite. If one the REAL vendors did distribute - then i have totally lost faith in the WHOLE PGI organization!!!:(

[countryboy7978]

I started my post with reported to me. I really do not know. The report appears creditable because it mentioned other details, I omitted the details in the video. I would try to get more details however, the more I think about it, I am not sure if I want to get more details. I am not going to reveal my sources, so where it goes from here is unknown.
I earlier said the only people hurt from all of this are the companies that sell fireworks at the convention. That safety and security leadership in the PGI needs to go. If this occurred in a private enterprise. the leadership would be gone. There too busy trying to stop me under some bullshit safety guise. Bring in a new safety and security leadership team is one of the first things you do when this type of thing occurs. The organization needs revitalized.

I agree with you there. Leadership has to go. That includes JS, RL and some of the others.

[Kenny East]

I would be a little skeptical, business owner risking everything to make $5, kinda seems off... Everyone knows of products out there like these but i would be more apt to believe it was someone hocking these... Not a legit vendor... At least not in such a public venue....

[Northern Sky]

This kind of "reporting" is why "the 20" do not support you and are a thorn in your side.

Please take this thread down and delete it for ever.

Sometimes I sometimes I swear you post things just to see what kind of rise you can get.

[nayslayer]

absolutely does

[PyroMike79]

I would tend to believe that this was a parking lot deal, instead of an actual dealer at the convention. Too much at risk over a 5 dollar item. Even the people who were selling overloads would be unlikely to waste their time on an item like this when they could be selling a $50 overloaded cake. Those at least have labels and look like 1.4 to offer some cover. Anybody who sees an item like that boomer knows instantly what it is. Cant imagine there are that many dealers large enough to vend at the PGI who are so blatantly stupid and eager to go to jail.

I would add that I have no trouble believing somebody was selling stuff like this from the trunk of their car and that has to be addressed without delay. Once the stuff is bought at the convention it becomes the problem of the PGI, no matter where it came from. These parking lot dealers are going to get the legitimate folks into trouble and as last year shows, a lot of them don't need any help in that area!

[ThorsThunder]

Interesting to see the reactions on this thread. So Dave says directly "this is what someone told me they bought". Is it that outlandish to think one of the idiots at convention would think they would be able to get away with selling these? No. Is it ridiculous to think that one of the morons at convention would take $5 all day long for an item like this and feel like there would be no repercussions? No. This theory above that "Too much at risk over a 5 dollar item. Even the people who were selling overloads would be unlikely to waste their time on an item like this when they could be selling a $50 overloaded cake" is a bad theory because the ones selling any overloads of any kind do not care about the safety OR security at convention, nor do they ever think anything is going to happen. Quite frankly, I am astounded that none of the vendors were caught selling 8" shells in the class c vending, they have gotten away with everything else up to this last year so why stop at ANY limit.

It occurred to me that there are a group of fireworks people in this country that believe that they are either above the law (PGI rules) or will not get caught. How many of you have a PGI membership, or at least did at the time, and were at convention in 2016? How many of you walked through and even purchased items from class c vending last year? In my humble opinion, you are just as culpable for all of the crap going on as the security staff. I never once heard anybody say anything at the business meetings about how or why this should be stopped - its somebody else's problem, let them deal with it; or I don't want to get involved. Oh and before you say it was shut down before the business meeting, where were you the last several years then. I myself am to blame in the exact same way. We should all take responsibility for the goings on at OUR convention. No matter - I'm sure there are some folks reading this that are plenty upset with what I just said, but, it is what it is.

All of that said, how in the world do any of you get that Dave shouldn't post this or this thread should be deleted????? How does any of his op have to do with him directly at all? The 20??? Who cares!?! As far as I have seen, there are plenty of big display operators and guys that barely know the business end of a Bic on this forum just the same. Certain companies/shooters/"professionals" don't want anything to do with Dave because there are contingents of people that do not agree with him; or me; or you for that matter. Sure it's easy to cite this reason or that reason, but the deep down truth is that some people agree with some and disagree with others. Unfortunately, humans don't seem to be able to just have an honest debate and leave it at that. Too many of us feel that I am right and you are wrong so we can't be friends anymore. Why? Just agree to disagree. "Well Dave posted about PGI Convention selling M-80's to 5 year olds and I just don't think that's right". And if you don't think things just as ridiculous have been said about Dave in the past - you are mistaken. Do I agree with every detail Dave says? Well no, but I disagree with my wife way more than Dave and I have been married to her for over 18 years now. LOL. Just sayin.

One last observation. As far as I know, Dave built this forum and maintains it to this day if I am not mistaken. I believe he can post whatever he wants on his forum. All you have to do is decide whether you want to remain a part of it going forward. I can honestly say, I do, because even though I don't necessarily agree with Dave 100%, I do recognize he has helped the industry way more than the few things I disagree with. I dare say he probably has forgotten enough about fireworks to fill a novel.

[ThorsThunder]

P.S. I also think something should be changed were PGI safety and security is concerned. Not sure what, but yes, a change of some kind is certainly in order.

[nayslayer]

Well said ThorsThunder. Dave has put so much out there for free, footed bill for website and those guys bitch about a few bucks for a well done dvd.

[displayfireworks1]

So when the ATF and CPSC says the PGI is a conduit for illegal fireworks activity, there may be ring of truth to that. That entire safety and security leadership needs to go. My guess is they will still manage to hold their positions. If this was the private sector they would have been the first to go. They let the entire event turn into a Safe Haven for borderline criminal activity. Robin is gone, maybe they can Ruth, Darryl and few other ones with them. They were the private police for this group trying to stop me and control what I do. All while this massive illegal conduit is occurring right in front of their nose. These safety and security people have been in these positions for years. They let it get to this point and they protected it. Someone told them to stop me and that is what they tried to do at this last convention. If this same group stays in safety and security leadership, I don’t have any respect for them, they are phony. If it was me, I would raise the dues membership and hire private security. If you bring back the legitimate fireworks vendors you are going to need private security, you can’t trust that security group you have now, it's corrupt.

[shake the cove]

I totally agree with Countryboy. We was there from the beginning.
There is 2 kinds of vending going on at PGI.
1. The legit vendors in the building/tents who pay their fees/insurance/paid help etc. you will NEVER find that there. Heck I didn't even vend this year - but delivered a couple orders on the way out - so I helped contribute to the FFFF dinners.
2. The parking lot vendors - selling out of trunks of cars, vans, trucks who do not give Jack Squat about anything....

Just my ever so humble insite. If one the REAL vendors did distribute - then i have totally lost faith in the WHOLE PGI organization!!!:(


jknepp1954, I totally agree with you as you are a respected /wholesaler/retailer with many helpful blogs on this site. What bothers me is no one strolling to check on selling items to some times kids and very young adults. I would be pissed if I saw it and it was really overloaded or even a small regular firecracker salute maybe to look like something bigger for more profit. I am pretty sure Dave did not get to disassemble it be to look inside to evaluate it.
By the way I too saw the individual with it who purchased the item maybe a half to one hour before Dave did. Seemed credible to me. But I did not grill the person much but saw they had it and other items and asked where he got them/who made them.

[PyroMike79]

I just wanted to say that I hope my post did not come across as critical of Dave or of expressing disbelief in his post. I have been a follower for years and enjoy his content as much as anybody. Maybe my meaning got muddled but my overall point was that I have no problem believing this was bought at PGI, I would just HOPE (and maybe I am being naive) that it wasn't from a dealer in the class c building. But no matter what, it is still the PGI's problem and they better get on top of it. You cant have a guy in the parking lot selling crap like this any more than you could have a guy selling crystal meth. Especially not when the PGI has put a big target on its back after 2016's comedy of errors. Changing the vendor rules-as they have done-is all for nothing if you have a guy out in the back 40 selling pipe bombs at $5 a pop. They really need to get a handle on things.

[displayfireworks1]

If you think about the PGI convention, it is a perfect place for this activity. All the permits and responsibility belongs to the PGI. If you sell this stuff, the PGI takes the responsibility and you make all the money. I think I said this before, they want you to pay the bills and they make the deals. And if you can’t provide that, they call you every name in the book and have no use for you.
It looks like the PGI is trying to do the right thing. When you have a big pile of stink. You sanitize it and start again. They need a different security and monitoring program. We as members also need to be more selective about people we elect into these officer positions. If you remember the only officer running for election that wanted to talk to me on video was John Steinberg. If you want to run an organization of this size and can’t deal with talking to someone like me in the enthusiast market how can you run a major organization like the PGI?

[displayfireworks1]

To update the post, it is claimed to have been purchased at PGI convention from a vendor that is not a well know name. These were kept in a box behind the tables. The individual was directed behind the tables to a box and told they were $5.00 each after he ask for something louder than what was visible on the table.. This individual also sent me a video of another firecracker that was sold in Red White and Blue spiral tube. You can see the video is from the PGI. If it means anything the Red White and Blue ones were not as loud as the silver one in the video above.

[Northern Sky]

Oh, to be a moderator.
. .

This thread just needs to go AWAY.