Still upside down

[displayfireworks1]

It looks like they are still putting the shells in upside down.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnZAyvGDbj4

[jamisonlm3]

What kind of person sits on the ground to light fireworks and scoots away? I bet that wasn't a canister shell. He's lucky.

[Northern Sky]

Did you check the IP?

Was he one of our new 54 possessors lol.

They really sriced up the backyard fun.

[displayfireworks1]

I outlined some of this in the recent past. The real safety issue with fireworks is at the consumer level. When I find these videos I try to post them. I keep trying to make recommendations to AFSL or anyone that will listen about the fuse placement and invisible part of the fuse as it goes down the side of the shell. No one listens . The 1.4 consumer reloadable artillery shell design needs addressed. You can call these people name all day, this is it what it looks like at the consumer level. The current instructions are worthless. My research is telling me there are usually two mistakes that occur with the artillery shells. The first one is placing it in upside down.

[jamisonlm3]

How do you think the shell design needs to be changed? I agree with you that the current instructions are worthless. Here's a picture I took of the instructions on the a box of Diablo and Quest. On the Diablo box, it's the same image, but with different captions. When it says fuse end down, some might think that means the top of the shell. These instructions are actually quite dangerous now that I think of it. There's no mention or reference to the labeling on the actual shell itself. No reference to the "TOP" printed on the top of the shell or the arrow that points to the top of the shell. The instructions for the Quest shells are just as bad. Even though they show the fuse running up the side of the shell, there are no captions at all. Quest shells do have a small yellow sticker on the side of the shell telling you which side to keep up when you load them. There's no seperate markings on the top like the Diablo shells.

[chriskrc]

One other thing or question I should say. Look at the heading for the video hilarious fireworks fail. What's so hilarious about it? Like jamisonlm3 lucky it wasn't a cannister shell.

[RalphieJ]

So the instructions tell you how to load the shell. The loony-toons cartoon character shows you how to load the shell. The shell says "Top" or "This End Up". I call it "Selection of the Fittest", let those ignorant b*st*ards eliminate themselves and not pass down their DNA to future generations.

[jamisonlm3]

I worry that too many people will load shells upside down and get hurt. People, the right ones, will complain and eventually, mortars will have to be shipped with these shells that will survive intact and whole or there will be new limts. Instead of 60g being the limit, 30g or less might be the new limit. Maybe new limts and mortar requirements will be the future? Worst case I can see is they just ban them outright. If that happens, to get anything decent, you'll have to have an ATF license. Personally, I don't think it's really that hard to search the internet to see how to properly use these fireworks. When I got mine, I didn't even pay much attention to the poor instruction on the box. I had watched Dave's video and other videos on them. From watching those videos, I knew the fuse went down the side of the shell, under the shell wrapper, into a little pocket that contained the lift charge. I didn't need any instructions on how to load them properly. Still, I know not everyone will know this or look it up as I did. They'll go by the instruction on the box or shells. Still, better instruction will help, but I think there will always be those who don't look at them, no matter how great they are.

[ilovecrackle]

What is lacking in a lot of these "firework fail scenarios" is common sense.
You can come up with a new ground breaking innovated shell design or put a new and better picture on the box showing the proper way to load the shell with detailed instructions but when it comes down to it, stupidity and the use of alcohol is going to trump common sense every time.
I'm not saying alcohol is responsible for every backyard disaster but i'm sure it plays a part in some.

And don't take this as I am not for any kind of change what so ever. Any change in anything that can increase safety, especially in this hobby is a change for the good. I'm just saying a lot of people that are involved with these "firework failure scenarios" are not using that thing inside their skull called a brain, lack common sense or are influenced by "outside" forces such as alcohol.

Take mr. "sitting on his butt lighting the shell and scooting backwards away" in the above video as an example. lol :p

I am with Jamisonlm3, I am also curious how the shell deign should be changed.

[displayfireworks1]

Here is a simple prototype I have sitting around. Currently the fuse enters the "TOP" of the shell and is hidden under the paper. I feel if the fuse is visible along the side of the shell as it makes it way down to the lift it would help an inexperienced user understand where the lift is. The more I think about it that word "TOP" is also useless. The bottom of the shell should be identified as the printed word "BOTTOM" This way of it is loaded in upside down they may see the word bottom if they attempt to incorrectly load it.
Last I heard the small re-loadable artillery shells are unique to United States. Foreign countries require these to be sold as pre-loaded one shot items.
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1710&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1711&stc=1
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http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1712&stc=1

[jamisonlm3]

I think that would help. To me at least, seeing the fuse bent and running down the shell twice would set off a few alarms in my head. Maybe new wrappers can be used that have a long clear section like a mailing envelope has? This would allow people to see the fuse running down and going into the shell. Add to it, clearer, more descriptive instructions. Still, I feel like even with it all, some people will still put shells in upside down.

[chriskrc]

Most shells have a little string holding the fuse to the top but if that comes off I can see where someone can mistake which way it goes. But I agree a clearer way to see the fuse on a cannister would work and clearer written " top " on a shell would help to. Unfortunately today no one wants to be responsible for their own actions and when something goes wrong everyone else gets screwed.

[nayslayer]

Most shells have a little string holding the fuse to the top but if that comes off I can see where someone can mistake which way it goes. But I agree a clearer way to see the fuse on a cannister would work and clearer written " top " on a shell would help to. Unfortunately today no one wants to be responsible for their own actions and when something goes wrong everyone else gets screwed.

I agree, there is only so much you can do before you eliminate them completely. Maybe have the top in some reflective piece that says top and have it cleary marked on box, but who looks at that stuff anyway. Maybe it should be gone over when purchased from seller. But there are always people wanting to see what will happen IF

[chriskrc]

I agree, there is only so much you can do before you eliminate them completely. Maybe have the top in some reflective piece that says top and have it cleary marked on box, but who looks at that stuff anyway. Maybe it should be gone over when purchased from seller. But there are always people wanting to see what will happen IF

That's a true statement indeed. Those are the people who screw it all up for the rest of us

[displayfireworks1]

That picture I posted is a primitive prototype and would need further development. The idea was to demonstrate the fuse needs to be visible on the side of the shell as it makes its way down to the lift.
I feel most novice users of consumer fireworks don't read the directions and if you really look at the directions, they are worthless. I feel its more of a psychological thing happening, where the user tries to reason out how it should be used as they look at it.
Switching the subject over to consumer cakes. I wish I could remember what country it is , but they have a regulation that all consumer cakes must have the fuse at the very top the mortars of the cake. This prevents someone from setting the cake upside down to light it. Because if you set it upside down you can not get to the fuse. I remember one of overseas youtube subscribers told me about this. I ask him to send me pictures and it was as I predicted. It started out as Visco fuse then once under the foil it went into quick match to still allow for a reasonable time to light the cake. I posted that years ago and can not remember what country it was.

[jamisonlm3]

The thought occured to me today that the cardboard sleeves you get that hold the shells and mortar in the shell kits we buy could have a set of loading instructions printed on them as well. This is a picture of a sleeve from an Excalibur kit. There's plenty of space to print loading instructions on the other half. There's already written instructions, the other half could have the graphics to go with it.

[displayfireworks1]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vasz4PRFdhE
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From Go Fund Me page.
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My brother had a horrible accident this weekend. He was holding an artillery shell cannon (yes he knows it was not the smartest idea) and and artillery shell got put in upside down accidentally. When it went off it blew up his hand. It shattered his hand, broke every bone in his palm except one........
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https://www.gofundme.com/2cr7bsk
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http://funds.gfmcdn.com/12685273_1467677426.1401.jpg

[PyroManiacs]

Awesome spelling he has.

[vegassalute]

Unreal! This is the kind of crap that the anti's just live for! They are STILL putting them in upside down?!?!

[countryboy7978]

I don’t understand the desire to hold a mortar in your hand! This is time and time again.

[displayfireworks1]

There is no such thing as an anti-fireworks group. There is only a small group of so called fireworks enthusiast and some people in the business that are the anti-fireworks groups. They keep wanting you to believe there is a anti-fireworks group out there other than them. I never heard from a so called imaginary anti-fireworks group in my life. But I can't say the same for them. Don't be so quick to believe in "Anti-Fireworks" groups. As far as I see , legalization and regulations are controlled by political and business factions. There is company that is big in the Safe and Sane business that is the biggest Anti group out there. No anti-fireworks ever tried to stop me from getting enthusiast ATF licensed. But a small group of enthusiast did and still does.
They only way to get people to stop holding fireworks products is to stop making any fireworks product that can be held including sparklers. Then you make public announcements educating people. The entire industry lacks public education and the instructions on the box need improved and simplified. Further legalization across the country will bring about improvement in this area. Remember the average user is a once a year user, using a product in the dark and sometimes it includes impaired judgement.

[vegassalute]

There is no such thing as an anti-fireworks group. There is only a small group of so called fireworks enthusiast and some people in the business that are the anti-fireworks groups. They keep wanting you to believe there is a anti-fireworks group out there other than them. I never heard from a so called imaginary anti-fireworks group in my life. But I can't say the same for them. Don't be so quick to believe in "Anti-Fireworks" groups. As far as I see , legalization and regulations are controlled by political and business factions. There is company that is big in the Safe and Sane business that is the biggest Anti group out there. No anti-fireworks ever tried to stop me from getting enthusiast ATF licensed. But a small group of enthusiast did and still does.
They only way to get people to stop holding fireworks products is to stop making any fireworks product that can be held including sparklers. Then you make public announcements educating people. The entire industry lacks public education and the instructions on the box need improved and simplified. Further legalization across the country will bring about improvement in this area. Remember the average user is a once a year user, using a product in the dark and sometimes it includes impaired judgement.

The improved injury statistics over the past decade support what you're saying. I am totally against the cessation of any of our products. We focus on educating our consumers here and I think other retailers should do the same. Fireworks use isn't as intuitive as one would think, especially to guys like us that have been firing for years.

[countryboy7978]

I do feel that there are anti-fireworks organizations although not in the same sense as for instance organized and funded anti-gun organizations. When pro-Fireworks legislation comes to any legislative body you will almost always have the local/state fire prevention association as well as doctor organizations such as the opthamologists that will come out against Fireworks. They are most likely pawns for the insurance industry who are the ones who stand to lose money from fires or injuries. On a smaller scale you have animal groups or the local town criers who complain that it keeps them up at night or puts their pets into a frenzy. These are the people I consider the “antis.” Yes some large fireworks retailers may also push to keep laws limited to Safe and Sane products because they have the market cornered. They don’t benefit from competition that happens when you open up full C. All these have influence but in the end it’s money that talks from a state/local level. Just comes down to
Who has the most of it.
One thing to keep in mind is that while these “antis” might not keep track of who blows their hand off holding a mortar, the CPSC does. If you watched the old CPSC demos 20 years ago, they were almost exclusively large firecrackers inside of watermelons or chickens. That was the target back then. They would go M80, M100, Half Stick etc. Now you see the demos centering around people looking down a tube, manufacturering in their kitchen, and now holding mortars over their heads. This is because they have taken note that these were recent incidents that caused death to someone. Yes most center around 1.3 in the hands of consumers but keep in mind. M80s got banned in the 60s for a reason, large firecrackers got banned in the 70s for a reason, consumer reloadables up to 2.5” got banned in the 90s after several deaths/injuries. So if people keep mangling their bodies with reloadable canister shells, someone’s going to take note. Maybe nothing gets done with the current administration, but somewhere down the line you’ll get a commission that doesn’t like consumer Fireworks and one of these new testing methods will stick. That’s my take.

[Northern Sky]

This brings to mind the old, "you can't legislate away stupidity".

Stupid is as Stupid does.

[RalphieJ]

Every fireman I know is anti-fireworks (consumer, not 1.3). Both career and volunteer.

[countryboy7978]

Every fireman I know is anti-fireworks (consumer, not 1.3). Both career and volunteer.
In my experience I’ve found quite the opposite. I have several friends who are fire fighters and they love fireworks including consumer and many of them shoot consumer pyrotechnics. I’ve spoken with dozens of them and the only fire fighters against fireworks are typically the chiefs. They are more political figureheads than the rank and file members and therefore have to speak for the lobbyists and constituents who feel fireworks to be a nuisance. Instead of addressing that issue they go to the old standby.... fear. What better to drum up fear than stories of bottle rockets burning down homes, sparklers burning children and Cherry Bombs ripping off fingers.

[dirtysouthpyro]

apparently the environmentalists aren't big fans either (http://www.backcountryattitude.com/toxic_fireworks.html)

[cptnding]

apparently the environmentalists aren't big fans either (http://www.backcountryattitude.com/toxic_fireworks.html)

Wow. That article is special.
My favorite recommendation for fireworks alternatives to celebrate the 4th:

"Some people are organizing community drum circles and drumming instead of lighting fireworks."

Maybe I'll pitch that one to the family and the neighbors and see what they think. I'm guessing they would rather I just go ahead a finally buy an Audiobox but who knows.