Hello from Alpharetta Georgia

[Hydrazine]

Hi Everyone,

As a life long pyro enthusiast I think its about time to step up the game to getting licensed and digging into the science.
My background is in rocket science solid propellant technology at Dynamic Propellant Technology, liquid mono and bi-propellant rocket propulsion at Kaiser Marquardt and then liquid bi-propellant rocket propulsion at Boeing.

I love fireworks and the science of fire, pressure, fluid dynamics and energetic chemistry. I can't help it, it's been part of me since the age of ~8 years old.

I would like to apply for a 1.3 license and even a manufacturing permit if it's feasible for my area. I'm in the legal research mode now and making contacts. If you know of any suggestions for licensing in the Alpharetta Georgia area please let me know.

If there are attorneys in North Georgia area that know how to navigate the licensing and compliance laws, please drop a name or phone number. ;)

Thank you,
Tony

[chriskrc]

Welcome to the forum

[Wholesale Fireworks]

Tony
Welcome to the forums. I would start by ordering Dave's DVD package to help you get started with the licensing process. He has pointed countless enthusiasts down the right path to step up their game.

[displayfireworks1]

Start with the Federal ATF User of Display Fireworks license and go from there. You really do not need a manufacturing license to make fireworks for your own use and not in commerce. Of course if you want to make fireworks you need to consider some form of storage. The state of Georgia may or may not regulate explosive storage. If you ask questions at the state level ask about explosive storage not manufacturing. I would suggest to become license to purchase 1.3 fireworks and shoot them. It will satisfy some of that pyro urge you are experiencing.
My ATF DVD/application package explains the process.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/shopping.php

[Hydrazine]

Tony
Welcome to the forums. I would start by ordering Dave's DVD package to help you get started with the licensing process. He has pointed countless enthusiasts down the right path to step up their game.

Oh yeah. :D
Already did that. Just waiting for the DVD to arrive in the mail. Thanks!

[Hydrazine]

Start with the Federal ATF User of Display Fireworks license and go from there. You really do not need a manufacturing license to make fireworks for your own use and not in commerce. Of course if you want to make fireworks you need to consider some form of storage. The state of Georgia may or may not regulate explosive storage. If you ask questions at the state level ask about explosive storage not manufacturing. I would suggest to become license to purchase 1.3 fireworks and shoot them. It will satisfy some of that pyro urge you are experiencing.
My ATF DVD/application package explains the process.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/shopping.php

I will do that. Thank you for the advice.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Interesting user name Tony! Lol... Hopefully you find the users and advice here less toxic and infinitely more stable. :cool:

Welcome aboard!

[Crab107]

Damn!! I real rocket scientist!! Dude id love to pick your brain for a few hours..lol.
I live over in Lawrencville. Not far from ya at all. I have a place to shoot over towards gaineville out in the counrty if you ever need to practice or want to throw in on a stash!! Alpharetta is getting pretty grown up these days!

[Hydrazine]

Interesting user name Tony! Lol... Hopefully you find the users and advice here less toxic and infinitely more stable. :cool:

Welcome aboard!
The stability is fine. It would have a million uses if it wasn't so horribly toxic/carcinogenic. Such a shame. I would be buying it by 50 gallon drums. It's the most wonderful compound next to water. Both a fuel and monopropellant. Straight liquid energy. A pyro's dream.

[Hydrazine]

Damn!! I real rocket scientist!! Dude id love to pick your brain for a few hours..lol.
I live over in Lawrencville. Not far from ya at all. I have a place to shoot over towards gaineville out in the counrty if you ever need to practice or want to throw in on a stash!! Alpharetta is getting pretty grown up these days!

We are practically neighbors. Sounds like a plan. :cool:

[cptnding]

Tony,
I am right up the road from you in north Forsyth. Hopefully we can navigate the storage issue. The ATF requirements are straight forward. In reading county code they require ATF and state approval but your land's zoning has to be non-residential. The state code is very ambiguous. May require a $1500 per year license.
Here are the requirements broken down:
ATF Requirements: State and County Approval
State Requirements: ATF and County Approval
County Requirements:ATF and Sate Approval
I think it would be hard to find an attorney that has experience with fireworks in GA. Best bet might be a land use attorney. They would at least be familiar with the county Fire Marshall and Code Enforcement.

[Hydrazine]

I'm zoned in agricultural.


Tony,
I am right up the road from you in north Forsyth. Hopefully we can navigate the storage issue. The ATF requirements are straight forward. In reading county code they require ATF and state approval but your land's zoning has to be non-residential. The state code is very ambiguous. May require a $1500 per year license.
Here are the requirements broken down:
ATF Requirements: State and County Approval
State Requirements: ATF and County Approval
County Requirements:ATF and Sate Approval
I think it would be hard to find an attorney that has experience with fireworks in GA. Best bet might be a land use attorney. They would at least be familiar with the county Fire Marshall and Code Enforcement.

Yes, I saw all that in the code and that's just the tip of the regulatory iceburg for manufacturing. When you look at the details, it's huge and the resultant costs far exceed $1500. But yes, it is confusing because people can legally mix and use Tannerite (a binary high explosive) without needing a license or magazine. The two dont seem to square up.

I'm not sure but it may depend on the definition of manufacturing and/or it's scale. It seems so unclear that enforcement could be arbitrarily applied. Hence the need for clarification.

[displayfireworks1]

You guys are confusing permission to use Tannerite with fireworks storage . What many people do not know is once you mix Tannerite and drive off with it in your car or store it mixed you need an ATF license. Tannerite is a good example of you do not need an ATF license to make explosives for your own use. It gets confusing I know if you do not understand the concept. Once Tannerite is mixed it becomes a different product as far as storage and transportation.
I really do not think you need an attorney on this, if the state has a storage law they may just accept the ATF Inspection/approval. There may be a yearly fee, my guess is it is no where near $1500.00. If I find time I may check with the ATF in Georgia.

[Hydrazine]

I asked the Georgia State Marshall if a permit was required for an individual to "manufacture" for their own personal use. Not for sale, not for storage, not for transportation, used on site.
He said any business or individual who "manufactures" must have a license and a magazine and a magazine license. And the process to approve said magazine is incredibly complex, requires engineering drawings, signed approval from three different state agencies and a notary for every signature. The $1500 yearly fee is small compared to all the other costs.

That is completely infeasible for a hobbyist.

So how is it possible to walk into a local gun shop, buy unlimited quantities of Tannerite and shoot it on your own property?

...This seems very contradictory and is why I am looking for professional legal advice. Because the potential consequences are so high, I really want to know with certainty before doing anything.

[cptnding]

I asked the Georgia State Marshall if a permit was required for an individual to "manufacture" for their own personal use. Not for sale, not for storage, not for transportation, used on site.
He said any business or individual who "manufactures" must have a license and a magazine and a magazine license. And the process to approve said magazine is incredibly complex, requires engineering drawings, signed approval from three different state agencies and a notary for every signature. The $1500 yearly fee is small compared to all the other costs.

That is completely infeasible for a hobbyist.

So how is it possible to walk into a local gun shop, buy unlimited quantities of Tannerite and shoot it on your own property?

...This seems very contradictory and is why I am looking for professional legal advice. Because the potential consequences are so high, I really want to know with certainty before doing anything.

What I have been researching has been specifically for 1.3 low explosives storage and GA code specifically includes fireworks storage in the same manner as manufacturing storage. Drawings, approvals, ect all BEFORE construction begins. Yet the ATF will approve a tiny shed and you have to build it first. I feel your pain with the contradictions.
I own a gun shop and we sell Tannerite most every day. It has became mainstream in our business. There are now several brands and the largest sporting goods distributors in the country all carry multiple brands. These are companies that have 500 million to 1 billion in yearly sales. Obviously the legal issues have worked out or those guys wouldn't be wholesaling to me. By definition, mixing Tannerite is manufacturing yet it's not. I certainly understand your interest in legal advice if manufacturing fireworks is your goal.
My plan is to get the 54 and go from there. At least then when I sit down with the county Fire Marshall or whoever, I will have a federal license in my hand. May not matter in the end if I can't get past the state code but I'll only be out $100 and will have a lot of fun on the way! I'll certainly let you know when I find any new information on the subject. Good luck!

[displayfireworks1]

You guys are perseverating on that Tannerite. Lets use the Tannerite example, if you MIX Tannerite and store it unattended overnight in your car or garage, you are in violation of explosive laws. Tannerite is sold the same way a fireworks chemical distributor sells fireworks chemicals. As long as they are not mixed they are just chemicals. Tannerite has nothing to do with 1.3 fireworks other than they both make a boom noise. I see that law about fireworks storage and $1500.00 fee, it notes it is for a business application.
I count 14 ATF Fireworks license holder in the entire state of Georgia, that is a very low number. Some of the names on the list are private individuals. At least 5 of those are Type 60 permits so the real number may be less than 10. Here is great state to sell 1.3 fireworks in. You can create a new market. You need to figure out who is selling 1.3 fireworks in Georgia, or it does not necessity have to be in the state if you live close to the border of a neighboring state. I probably really have you confused now. LOL

[Hydrazine]

I see that law about fireworks storage and $1500.00 fee, it notes it is for a business application.
I entirely agree but the State Fire Marshal says it includes individual hobbyists.

While I agree with you, I can't disregard the state fire marshals opinion. I can't bet my freedom or family on it.
While I am a true pyro, I prefer to conservatively stay on the safe side side of the law.
If I can research and get educated before conversing any more with the fire marshal, I'll gladly do it. I would much rather hear him say "Yes, you can make your own fireworks for New Years Eve or the 4th of July." (in the same manner as Tannerite use)

I dont know where or who else I can ask such a question... or possibly get pointers. And you are all very helpfull.
It's a long shot but this forum is the only place to possibly ask such a question.



I count 14 ATF Fireworks license holder in the entire state of Georgia, that is a very low number. Some of the names on the list are private individuals. At least 5 of those are Type 60 permits so the real number may be less than 10. Here is great state to sell 1.3 fireworks in. You can create a new market. You need to figure out who is selling 1.3 fireworks in Georgia, or it does not necessity have to be in the state if you live close to the border of a neighboring state. I probably really have you confused now. LOL

That is a tempting idea. I've thought about it before but my background is a bit different from classical fireworks making. ;)
I'll think about the feasibility and potential.

[cptnding]

.
I count 14 ATF Fireworks license holder in the entire state of Georgia,

Number 15 will be in process

[Hydrazine]

My plan is to get the 54 and go from there. At least then when I sit down with the county Fire Marshall or whoever, I will have a federal license in my hand. May not matter in the end if I can't get past the state code but I'll only be out $100 and will have a lot of fun on the way! I'll certainly let you know when I find any new information on the subject. Good luck!
That's a good idea to get the 54 first. It will lend credibility when you apply for the state license. I'll keep you informed on any information I find on my end.

You, me and Crab107 should get together some time.
If you have a gun shop, I would definitely like to see that. :cool:

[displayfireworks1]

If one of you has a gun shop, check with other gun shops and see what type of magazine they are keeping their black powder in. My guess is there may be a provision for less than 50 lbs of explosive material. This smaller magazine will still get you you an ATF license. I can't imagine a gun shop is going to pay $1500.00 per year state fee to keep black powder.
If one of you ever decides to go with big storage of explosives, I'll find companies to ship product down to you. Of course there are some other terms that have to be discussed. Storage of explosive material most anywhere in United States is always in demand. I can help get many fireworks enthuist licensed from a magazine location. It adds expenses and cost but it can be done. I have the network to make it happen if it something you ever want to consider.

[topshelfpyro]

I live in Cumming, Ga as well. You guys meet up LMK and I will make an effort as well........maybe there is a possibility of "group" funding our interests?

[georgiapyro]

I am one of those 15 people in Ga. I don't have any desire to manufacture my own product, but it would be great to be able to get together with other license holders in the state and talk about storage and group shoots. The insurance requirement to get a permit to shoot 1.3 as a hobbyist is crazy. It's just not feasible for an individual to do a backyard show with combined 1.4 and 1.3. Even though Ga finally legalized 1.4 items, the requirements for the professional product are steep. Maybe it's time to start a GA club??

[steelfire]

are you looking ti getting into show setups and operating?

[cattlefarmboy]

I live in the north east part of Georgia also. I've been kicking around the idea of getting my 54. how one go about to add to the 14 or 15 in the state to get magazine storage when i dont know where is the closest at to buy 1.3 at in Ga.

[topshelfpyro]

Unless Ga changes the rules for 1.3 it's not something that I care about shooting in a personal show. Permits, insurance, inspections, fire marshal approvals, space requirements, licenses, magazines, etc. Pass.
Now if there was a club to join in Ga for group shoots or something that would be great.

[bml215]

welcome to the board!