500g - High vs Low shot count - Break size?

[JmFnG]

How big are the breaks on a NOAB like Whacky Tobacky compared to something like High Falutin' with 49 shots? Obviously the 9s are bigger, but I'm impressed with how much is packed into these high count cakes while still staying at/under 500g. How do they do that?

I hope to do some of my own comparisons one of these days when I can afford to shoot a few things just for that purpose. In the meantime, can anyone shed any light on this?

[PyroManiacs]

Keeping in mind that this is only the limit for Consumer product. It comes down to either, a lot of comp per tube, or a little bit of comp per tube.

It would be like taking a NOAB tube loaded with a Silver Palm Time Rain break and putting it next to a 16 shot Silver Palm Time Rain break next to 30 shot Silver Palm Time Rain break..... They are all the same... they just get weaker as you get less comp/smaller tube.

As far as quality, that all depends on the materials and methods used to produce the shot by the manufacturer, which would be like comparing Winda to Black Cat.
Of course that comparison is IMO. :p

[JmFnG]

When I posed this question, I wasn't considering perspective. I think the *x* factor is height -- less comp looks more impressive (bigger) when it breaks lower. Duh. Feel kinda silly for overlooking such an important contributing factor...I'll blame it on the fact that I'm solely judging videos. :rolleyes: In person, I think the difference would be more apparent.

[PyroManiacs]

When I posed this question, I wasn't considering perspective. I think the *x* factor is height -- less comp looks more impressive (bigger) when it breaks lower.

Of course. Actuality will definitely prove they the tubes with more comp are better. ;)

[Crab107]

How big are the breaks on a NOAB like Whacky Tobacky compared to something like High Falutin' with 49 shots? Obviously the 9s are bigger, but I'm impressed with how much is packed into these high count cakes while still staying at/under 500g. How do they do that?

I hope to do some of my own comparisons one of these days when I can afford to shoot a few things just for that purpose. In the meantime, can anyone shed any light on this?

I just saw a whacky tobacky today! So those 3" 9 shot cakes are 500 gramers?? Right?? I almost bought one. I can only assume that a 3" tube/shell would have more compression. I was hesitant because in the "consumer market" looks can be deceiving..lol...thats why i held off on buying the whacky tobacky.

[djsmurf]

I just saw a whacky tobacky today! So those 3" 9 shot cakes are 500 gramers?? Right?? I almost bought one. I can only assume that a 3" tube/shell would have more compression. I was hesitant because in the "consumer market" looks can be deceiving..lol...thats why i held off on buying the whacky tobacky.

I'm not really a fan of NOAB however whacky tobacky does preform well. I will say I did an all 500g high break show last year (just patience researching the cakes) and I had a few people complain it was to high and bothered their necks. About 450ft between people and shoot site. I guess it depends, some people are just more in tune with seeing a show from father away.

[Crab107]

I'm not really a fan of NOAB however whacky tobacky does preform well. I will say I did an all 500g high break show last year (just patience researching the cakes) and I had a few people complain it was to high and bothered their necks. About 450ft between people and shoot site. I guess it depends, some people are just more in tune with seeing a show from father away.

Well theres another factor to think of for my show. I would never complain about breaks being to high!! Id just be happy to see them...so ive got a 500g cake..didnt even know it..they threw it in free because i spent over $20o. Its called "thunder guns" wiki says its a 9 shot but it looks more like 32..small diameter tubes. I was so busy and excited about running my fuses i didnt see that it was a 500.

[djsmurf]

Well theres another factor to think of for my show. I would never complain about breaks being to high!! Id just be happy to see them...so ive got a 500g cake..didnt even know it..they threw it in free because i spent over $20o. Its called "thunder guns" wiki says its a 9 shot but it looks more like 32..small diameter tubes. I was so busy and excited about running my fuses i didnt see that it was a 500.

Yeah it was one of the stranger comments I have heard after a show. What brand is the "thunder guns" cake?

[dieselpyro88]

Yeah it was one of the stranger comments I have heard after a show. What brand is the "thunder guns" cake?

IT should be a FOA (showtime). they changed it this year it use to be a huge 9 shot cake now its a higher shot count and not as impressive. Use to be one of my favs.

[Tdd123]

I just saw a whacky tobacky today! So those 3" 9 shot cakes are 500 gramers?? Right?? I almost bought one. I can only assume that a 3" tube/shell would have more compression. I was hesitant because in the "consumer market" looks can be deceiving..lol...thats why i held off on buying the whacky tobacky.

Just a casual 4th of july fireworks user, so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that the "3 inch" 9 shots are just 1.75 inch shells inside of another shell casing to fit the tube. They usually seem to perform well compared other consumer products in my opinion, but I think you end up getting 9 nice quality 1.75 inch shells packaged together with tubes that say 3 inches.

[Bazerk]

Just a casual 4th of july fireworks user, so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that the "3 inch" 9 shots are just 1.75 inch shells inside of another shell casing to fit the tube. They usually seem to perform well compared other consumer products in my opinion, but I think you end up getting 9 nice quality 1.75 inch shells packaged together with tubes that say 3 inches.

Definitely a marketing ploy. I am not aware of any true 3in consumer shells. As far as a crowd being 450 feet away and complaining about 500g cakes being too high...that sounds crazy to me. Thats 150 yards away. My crowd is only 50-75 yards away and they love the 500g cakes. While we are on the subject of high and low breaks, does anyone else find the height meters on the side of the videos as silly as I do. I have yet to see a consumer cake get at or above 200 feet.

[ilovecrackle]

Just a casual 4th of july fireworks user, so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that the "3 inch" 9 shots are just 1.75 inch shells inside of another shell casing to fit the tube. They usually seem to perform well compared other consumer products in my opinion, but I think you end up getting 9 nice quality 1.75 inch shells packaged together with tubes that say 3 inches.

Most of those 9 shot 3" tubes are a 2.25" shell inside a 3" hemisphere.
1.75" is the largest re-loadable shell allowed to legally be sold to consumer. 2.25" is largest pre loaded shell legally allowed to be sold to the consumer. Those 3" nine shot cakes are definitely a deceptive yet genius marketing ploy. Lol

[mjbland05]

Most of those 9 shot 3" tubes are a 2.25" shell inside a 3" hemisphere.
1.75" is the largest re-loadable shell allowed to legally be sold to consumer. 2.25" is largest pre loaded shell legally allowed to be sold to the consumer. Those 3" nine shot cakes are definitely a deceptive yet genius marketing ploy. Lol

This. There was some great info on this on the Pyro Universe board before it went away. reloadables can be 1.75" and max 60 grams. but it's not possible to fit 60 grams into a 1.75" ball shell, hence we have canister shells. but canister shells don't have the prettiest or roundest breaks which is where the 9 shot 500 gram cakes and some single shot tubes *can* have an edge - you can get better looking effects out of the bigger round shells. but since cakes only have to be labeled with the max for their category, you don't really know if you're getting 500 grams of powder in a 500 gram cake. the marketing gimmicks are so strong in fireworks it's crazy.

[Tdd123]

Most of those 9 shot 3" tubes are a 2.25" shell inside a 3" hemisphere.
1.75" is the largest re-loadable shell allowed to legally be sold to consumer. 2.25" is largest pre loaded shell legally allowed to be sold to the consumer. Those 3" nine shot cakes are definitely a deceptive yet genius marketing ploy. Lol

Thanks for info, that makes sense. It would be nice to be able to get some big round breaks without having to pay that obnoxious mark up on those 9 racks. But i guess I would do the same thing if I were making them...if you want a .5 inch bigger shell, you have to buy it inside a $7 cardboard tube. That's a pretty brilliant job of capitalizing on regulations. Marking them as 3 inches is still sketchy though.

Mjbland05, do you know what the floor of the 500g category supposed to be? Would it be 351g?

[mjbland05]

unfortunately, no idea on the lower limit sorry. maybe someone else here will

[Tdd123]

No worries, it's probably just semantics anyways because i'm sure they would play fast and loose with it regardless. The performance should be all that really matters, but it still bothers me when I see blatantly misleading advertising. Thanks again.

[ilovecrackle]

You can find good, high quality 2" cakes that, in my opinion are a lot better deal when it comes to price VS performance then the nine shot boards..... or NOABS as I call them.
Yes, the NOABS will have a larger break but some of the 2" cakes out there are very good and are usually 12 shots and packed 4 to a case opposed to 9 shots and packed 2 to a case.

[johnb46804]

I always thought NOAB were a waste of money and the only NOAB i have ever shot was 3"OMB. I tried it in a finale and all i remember was it was extremely high(almost out of the picture) and probably not very loud. This year i had people telling me that my show needs bigger breaks even though i shot 2 cases of sharpshooter and chronic and 1 each of apocalypse now, massive american, and Big Sexy. I was thinking of doing a set next year of 2" and 3" finale cakes in a barrage fashion but not sure which items to get. Any suggestions or setup ideas would be appreciated.

[fatcat]

Interesting thread. I was under the impression that all consumer products were limited to 60 grams of total comp (both lift and display would equal 60 grams) per individual shell regardless of the size or shape. That is why when I purchase 500 gram cakes I would try to stick with the least amount of shots i.e 9 shot or 12 shot cakes. More bang for the buck

[johnb46804]

Thats how i have been living fatcat. I have been sticking with Big Fireworks for many years and i know there are some cakes with exceptional breaks like sharpshooter and chronic. was wondering about other brands and also set up ideas though, so to get many different layers without coming of finale like, i guess.

[cmalloy513]

Just a casual 4th of july fireworks user, so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that the "3 inch" 9 shots are just 1.75 inch shells inside of another shell casing to fit the tube. They usually seem to perform well compared other consumer products in my opinion, but I think you end up getting 9 nice quality 1.75 inch shells packaged together with tubes that say 3 inches.

Yes this is right. Winda even makes a cake with (5) "four inch" shells. But it is just 1.75 inch shells inside