Newbie looking for advice on first display

[apellet]

Hi everyone! My name is Amy and I've been in love with fireworks since the age of 7, when I used to climb the old rickety antenna up to the roof so I could enjoy all the neighborhood shows. This is the first year that I've invested a significant amount of money in it, and I'm trying to determine if I truly have a good lot and the best order to fire them in. I went with 500g cakes and artillery shells (mostly Megabanger, Dominator, Brothers, and Planet X) that I thought would give me a nice variety of effects and durations. I was wondering if you guys could take a look at my list below and offer some suggestions, as well as provide the names of any that I just have to add. I plan to use Da Big Bomb Box either after, or with, Amazing Ballet for my finale. I'm also curious if it's worthwhile to invest in a firing system or not. Even though it's just a small show for family and friends, I'm really hoping to make it memorable, and learn a lot, so I can create a bigger and better experience each year.

Thanks so much for your time and any advice you can offer. There seems to be some really kind and knowledgeable folks on this site and I'm looking forward to getting to know you!

The One
Pyro Fest
Slam Dunk
Undefeated
Blonde Joke
Kaleidoscope Eyes
Exterminator shells
KingSlayer shells
The Big Explosion
Machete
High Voltage
Indivisible
Detonator
Demon Detonator
Purple Melody
Double Barrel
High Output
Seal Team
Spastic Strobe
Cock N Fire
High Falutin
The Royal Air Force
Thunder Howl
One Really Bad Mother in Law
Rebellion
.38 Special
Alien Planet
Cantina Band
Cocky
Counter Strike
Deep Impact
Walkers
Gunsmoke
Mobile Menace
Dark Matter
High Velocity
Midnight Run
The Noisy Cricket
Chupacabra
OpenFire
Patriotic Dominance
Boom Box
Braggin’ Rights
Amazing Ballet
Da Big Bomb Box

[mjbland05]

I can't really comment on the fireworks you have as I don't really know too many cakes by name. I will say a few things that work for me. I find that mixing in 200 gram cakes along with larger cakes and mortars is a good way to make your money a little farther, but also there are some really good 200 gram cakes out there. It also gives you more variety to work with - you can layer smaller cakes with larger cakes for instance. I am even mixing in some super small 200 gram cakes just for an added layer, and to allow the ability to build things up as the show progresses. I don't personally use an electronic firing system, but i do fuse my cakes together into groups or boards. Many people have much larger shows than i do, and hand firing works for me, but i definitely am all in on fusing fireworks into sequences for different effects, layers and displays.

Regarding how to lay out your show - I spent at least a week watching videos and obsessing over layouts and sequences, and will probably continue to tweak, untweak, and tweak again right up until i lay the cakes down on boards and fuse them together. Read some threads below in this forum and you'll find full threads on this topic.

As for how to go about laying out your show, you'll find different approaches. The easiest is probably writing down each cake on a 3x5 card and shuffling them around until you have something you like. I personally used Visio this year because I'm a big nerd and have access to the software, but it's made it really easy to arrange and rearrange and rearrange again. One of the guys here used CAD software which made a really nice layout as well. I've attached the current iteration of my boards so you can see how i approached it. i made six boards, and a giant roman candle group. in the upper left corner is the remaining unused inventory that my brother & brother in law can light themselves as well. the different sizes and shapes refer to the general size and effect.
1086

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Hi Amy and welcome to the Forum. I can't give you exact answers on your show layout but I am familiar with some of the cakes you have listed & the ones I recognize are nice cakes. You didn't mention how many cakes you have--1 of each, 2 of each, etc. If you have 2 or 3 of the same cake the typical setup is to spread them out in "positions" across the shooting area to give a wider coverage to your display. Also, how big [wide & deep] is the area you will be setting up in? Lots of questions. Haha.
I'm sure some of the other members of the Forum that are more familiar with the class C product lines can give you some valuable input.
You can get an "entry level" firing system with 16 or 32 cues for not a lot of money and that would give you a whole new level of enjoyment to your show. It is great to be able to sit back & watch your show get in the air [although there are some that get their "rush" from being in the middle of flying fuses and want to hand light everything!].

[chriskrc]

Welcome to the forum. Amazing ballet and da big bomb box will make a great finale. If you get a chance to fast fuse up some shells if you can and put them in the finale. The one thing I can suggest for a cake is if you are looking to have something go at a pretty good pace as well in the finale, gorilla warfare or fighting rooster are awesome finale cakes. Just keep in mind the audience distance and definitely space out the products to fill the sky nicely.

[PGH_Pyro]

its not the product you have but, rather, how you use it .... :rolleyes:

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Amy - Welcome aboard! Always great to meet a new pyro buddy. Looks like you have quite an impressive stash for your first big show. As far as how to put it all together... That's the challenge. What I do is pour over the videos of what I purchased. Then I rack and stack them from least impressive to most impressive. I do all of this in an Excel spreadsheet. Once I rank them from least to most impressive, I then lay out my boards. I went to Home Depot and got some 4'X8' sheets of plywood. I had them rip them down the middle so I have two 2'x8' sheets. I then affix 2"x1"x8' long support boards to make the base. Cut one of those up into four 2' lengths to affix side to side. (I'll attach a picture so you see what I'm talking about.)

Once you have the boards built, you just lay out the cakes on the board to see what will fit on each board. Dry fit them checking for spacing in order to fuse everything after they're glued down. I also write the duration or "burn time" of each cake on top of the cake so I know what fuse to use for each board. Once I'm happy with the layout, I take a picture with my phone so I remember what I did, and I repack the cakes in their boxes and write on each box which board they will go on.

Daisy chaining all those cakes together on multiple boards with different fuse types and getting them all to go off with one light can sometimes be problematic. So I would recommend an electronic remote firing system. I picked one up for around $200. It has 12 cues and it came with (I believe) 500 talon fuses. It's a whole lot easier to separate mortar racks (for example) and set them both off at the same time with an electronic firing system, than it is trying to fuse them together.

Just my $0.02. Hope you find it helpful.

Rick

1088 Here's the firing system.

1089 Here you can see the boards.

[apellet]

Thank you for the helpful tips! That's what I was thinking-watch each video again, and make a list with name/duration/main effect/quality. That way I won't have two mines back to back or a slew of repeaters with similar colors, etc. I definitely like the idea of throwing some 200g's in the mix with some 500g's, rather than setting off all my 200g's singularly and working up as I originally planned. Thanks for the board visual as well!

[apellet]

Sorry guys, I thought I was replying to MJ directly, but it looks like it's posting my response to everyone! I don't do this blog thing much :) But anyways, just wanted to make sure I addressed all of your helpful advice and say thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day to help me out. As I said before, with this being my first show, I'm looking at it as a way to learn about timing, layering effects, and the like. I'm determined not to put too much pressure on myself, even though I always totally do that. haha.

Joe-the area I'll be setting up in a residential street/driveway. Luckily, I have really laid-back neighbors. I planned to try a field or something similar next year, after I have gotten more familiar with all of this. Also, I only have one of each of the cakes listed above, except for Rebellion, which I have two of. We have set off some big cakes before with no problems, but never this many.

Chris-thanks for the confidence booster on Ballet/DBBB. I figured that with Ballet being a fan cake, and each DBBB cake having a distinct effect, they would throw together nicely. I've heard lots of great things about Guerilla and Fighting Rooster.

I have no experience with fusing whatsoever, so I will definitely be checking out those forum videos. I also appreciate the visuals that you guys provided of your board setups and the firing system.

[Pyropug]

Are you using a firing system? If not I recommend road flare duck taped to broom sicks. Position as many stations as you have people lighting. Try to make 2 outside stations match up with product in a line, center station can be and should be different with fan type cakes. As you do the display you and other persons light starting with cake 1 and down their station. Try to plan and light at same moments. I wouldn't mess with fusing. Another thing have some good background music, it's sets a good mood.

[apellet]

No I'm not (yet), Pug. Your idea may be the better route to go for this first year, until I become more familiar with everything. I have heard the flares/broomsticks are quite effective, you just have to watch for dripping! Thanks!

[djsmurf]

No I'm not (yet), Pug. Your idea may be the better route to go for this first year, until I become more familiar with everything. I have heard the flares/broomsticks are quite effective, you just have to watch for dripping! Thanks!

Flares are nice to start with they help you see what is going on as well as make lighting cakes simple. I made some metal extension tubes for my flares don't have to worry about burning your hands and lets you burn them down to almost nothing. I'll post some pictures when I can. Sounds like you have a nice show planned.

[K&C Fireworks]

I've been doing the fusing thing for couple of years . its ok but it leaves alot holes in your show. last year I bought couple 12 cue firing systems from china . not what I want but they are pretty cool . you have some good cakes on your list. I really like the brothers cakes they are really nice. double barrel a nice one too.

[Pyropug]

Sorry guys, I thought I was replying to MJ directly, but it looks like it's posting my response to everyone! I don't do this blog thing much :) But anyways, just wanted to make sure I addressed all of your helpful advice and say thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day to help me out. As I said before, with this being my first show, I'm looking at it as a way to learn about timing, layering effects, and the like. I'm determined not to put too much pressure on myself, even though I always totally do that. haha.

Joe-the area I'll be setting up in a residential street/driveway. Luckily, I have really laid-back neighbors. I planned to try a field or something similar next year, after I have gotten more familiar with all of this. Also, I only have one of each of the cakes listed above, except for Rebellion, which I have two of. We have set off some big cakes before with no problems, but never this many.

Chris-thanks for the confidence booster on Ballet/DBBB. I figured that with Ballet being a fan cake, and each DBBB cake having a distinct effect, they would throw together nicely. I've heard lots of great things about Guerilla and Fighting Rooster.

I have no experience with fusing whatsoever, so I will definitely be checking out those forum videos. I also appreciate the visuals that you guys provided of your board setups and the firing system.

One more piece of advice, being where your lighting the fireworks off, you may want to remove the paper from the top of the cakes. Will make clean up much easier later.

[apellet]

Thanks, guys! I've been researching all three-flares, fusing, and firing systems, and I am really thinking of just investing the $200 bucks. A good entry level one would work just fine for at least a few years, as I don't anticipate doing as large a show as most of you guys do. I also like the added safety and convenience. Oh, and as far as removing the paper? The guys at the local fireworks shop advised that as well. I'm hoping to appease my neighbors with the fact that there will be minimal debris and I'm not doing any rockets/missles or those type of projectiles!

[apellet]

A couple more quick questions-for the finale, I plan to use Amazing Ballet and Da Big Bomb Box. I know to use a sheet of plywood, glue down the cakes, and put the Ballet in the middle since it's a fan. I am planning to put each of the other cakes in the four corners. Is there a particular spacing I need for this, or just as long as I feel I have good clearance? Also, do you think it would have more impact to have all the cakes going off at the same time or sequentially with a slight overlap?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

One other tidbit of advise--considering your residential location, have a water hose of suitable length hooked up & ready to go as well as one or two buckets of water by the cakes. Cakes are notorious for catching fire so the buckets will help. Put a couple of drops of dish washing soap [Dawn or equivalent] into the bucket of water after you fill the buckets [or you will have all suds and no water]. The soap helps the water adhere to the cardboard tubes of the cakes & puts the fire out with less water. We always put a few drops in out pressurized water cans that are on standby whenever we do a show. N.B. you can buy "decommissioned" water cans from supply houses or fire companies for around $35.00-$50.00. They are really handy.

[mjbland05]

regarding the finale - there's a thread below that talks about it that would probably give you some more ideas, but if it were me, i'd light the front two, let those go for a part or most of their duration, then light the last three, so you've got a slightly longer finale and you have a lot going up in the air at the same time. Having multiple cakes going off at a time definitely adds impact; at a certain point it gets to be what people call sky puke, where you can't tell things apart, so there is an upper limit on how much you want going up at once, but three cakes won't be that much.

here's that thread:
http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/showthread.php?4742-Finale-opinions

[mjbland05]

oh, and as regards spacing, other than making sure that the fan cake has clearance, with cakes that shoot straight up you won't be able to tell the difference in the sky between cakes that are touching and cakes that are 2 feet apart. As i've gotten more comfortable with fusing and from having seen how close together the cakes are from people that have been doing this a lot longer than i have, i've started putting cakes closer together. I will even tape cakes together which gives them better stability as well.

my first ever boards:
1091

a more recent board:
1092

[chriskrc]

A couple more quick questions-for the finale, I plan to use Amazing Ballet and Da Big Bomb Box. I know to use a sheet of plywood, glue down the cakes, and put the Ballet in the middle since it's a fan. I am planning to put each of the other cakes in the four corners. Is there a particular spacing I need for this, or just as long as I feel I have good clearance? Also, do you think it would have more impact to have all the cakes going off at the same time or sequentially with a slight overlap?

The way you are setting up the finale should be just fine and have plenty of clearance. As by the pictures mjbland05 posted you can put more on a board than you think. You don't want to overload the board but there is sufficient space. I would say a little overlap with the finale would be good with what you are using. Unless you were doing a big finale with a sky puke of shells slight overlap will work and have it go a little longer.

[apellet]

Joe-pro tip for sure! I haven't heard of the Dawn trick though.

MJ-I'm glad you clarified that! I was a little apprehensive that if I placed them too far apart, it would look a little funky in the air. It was awesome (and encouraging. ha) seeing your boards as well. If I'm not mistaken, those are firing modules in the pic, right? Considering how you suggested doing my finale, it sounds like remote firing is definitely the way to go.

Chris-that's what I was thinking..I like the big impact of shooting them all at once, but I think it'd have even greater effect with a bit more duration thrown in.

Thanks, guys! I am way too excited about this. haha.

[mjbland05]

nope, no firing module for me. i'm all in on fusing, but haven't gone to the step of a firing module. we honestly just use regular bbq grill lighters. we're very low tech :-)

[displayfireworks1]

I love these long fuse guys, its a challenge to bring them over into electrically firing. If you are into fusing I should be getting some fuse connector samples in the mail soon for review. By the time I make the video it may be too late for July 4th but it can be for future reference. I would at least consider getting a propane torch to light fireworks with. Those dam grill lights seem to fail when you need them the most. I think the fuse spits back a residue that easily disables them.
My video from 2012.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy44igLQV6Y

[PGH_Pyro]

and at that level, id do hand-firing . even if it's a few of you hand-firing in unison at certain cues.

[mjbland05]

I'm not opposed to electrical firing, I actually totally get it. But my fireworks site is my brother's house and while his wife is OK with the fireworks, she doesn't love them and we're already pushing the limits, so e-firing is a battle I'm choosing not to fight

[FlyingDutchman]

Here is a great video that shows the timing difference of 3 common types of fuses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0nlGri1VEQ

[apellet]

Great video! That quick fuse ain't no joke! :) I've been reading up on each if them a bit, but it was nice to actually see them in action. The electrical firing just seems so much safer and easier to me. All I truly have to decide this year though, since it's a small show, is how I'm going to do the finale. I don't know if we'll have enough willing participants for 5 cakes at once. Lol

[zzzybil]

Great advice here ! I started using ''magic whip '' for fusing , then went to 1 cheap chinese then 2 , now cobra . Theres plenty youtube fusing and show videos for ideas . Watch videos for your stuff ! I try to repeat small pieces of the awesome shows .

My advice is you are already working with less than safe distances . YOUR SHOW -YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for keeping everyone safe. TOO many people in close proximity lighting cakes sounds like receipe for someone to misstep ,rush , or just get confused -single minded excitement ..
So what if the fusing is not perfect as you learn . Better to keep your friends and family SAFE . idk IF alcohol will be involved but that adds to concern.
A few seconds of black sky is no biggie - lets smoke clear some -lol. Too many peeps - 5 trying to light something same time yikes . anything goes wrong its on you. Not trying rain on your parade !
Lastly space your pretty stuff thru your show - FINALE IS PUKE - anything and more ! You dn't want to waste your best in finale - FINALE can be a case of cheap stuff - can or crackle barrage . You don't want crackle oblitherating your prettiest breaks.
As another ''girl power'' pyro ........ I only use boards sparingly . They're just heavy . yup i use small boards but duck taping a couple 2-3-4 500g together is easier to handle and makes a solid ''footprint'' - not going to tip . Same with a bunch of 200g.
I like efiring because i get to SEE the show instead of tripping around in the dark lighting stuff (my boys prefer hand liting ) I prefer the safety factor - show area is clear of peeps - everyone back at safe distance. In your case FUSING simplifies your effort and gives you an advantage in the ''plan'' haha controling it. You will think you gave your help CLEAR DIRECTIONS / INSTRUCTIONS but in a nutshell they either forget , get excited , or plain just do what they want.
You are supposed to have 75-100' distance for every inch of tube size . Your big cakes might have up to 2 1/4'' and your cans/balls 1.75'' so do the math and peeps already TOO CLOSE right? Yeah yeah too much nagging but burning friends and family is the end result of mistakes - a serious consideration , more so than any of the board plans. I have had low breaks in last 2 shows - no problem or injuries because of distance ! The more product the better chance of low breaks - the more people you put in harms way ..........blah blah blah
Have fun chica bOOm bOOm ..... Just remember hero to zero is an ER trip away.... We taped off fw last time to keep curious back - IF your neighbors are that cool . Get them involved in corrding off no man zone vs viewing area. Think about that as part of your PLAN .

[zzzybil]

Great advice here ! I started using ''magic whip '' for fusing , then went to 1 cheap chinese then 2 , now cobra . Theres plenty youtube fusing and show videos for ideas . Watch videos for your stuff ! I try to repeat small pieces of the awesome shows .

My advice is you are already working with less than safe distances . YOUR SHOW -YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for keeping everyone safe. TOO many people in close proximity lighting cakes sounds like receipe for someone to misstep ,rush , or just get confused -single minded excitement ..
So what if the fusing is not perfect as you learn . Better to keep your friends and family SAFE . idk IF alcohol will be involved but that adds to concern.
A few seconds of black sky is no biggie - lets smoke clear some -lol. Too many peeps - 5 trying to light something same time yikes . anything goes wrong its on you. Not trying rain on your parade !
Lastly space your pretty stuff thru your show - FINALE IS PUKE - anything and more ! You dn't want to waste your best in finale - FINALE can be a case of cheap stuff - can or crackle barrage . You don't want crackle oblitherating your prettiest breaks.
As another ''girl power'' pyro ........ I only use boards sparingly . They're just heavy . yup i use small boards but duck taping a couple 2-3-4 500g together is easier to handle and makes a solid ''footprint'' - not going to tip . Same with a bunch of 200g.
I like efiring because i get to SEE the show instead of tripping around in the dark lighting stuff (my boys prefer hand liting ) I prefer the safety factor - show area is clear of peeps - everyone back at safe distance. In your case FUSING simplifies your effort and gives you an advantage in the ''plan'' haha controling it. You will think you gave your help CLEAR DIRECTIONS / INSTRUCTIONS but in a nutshell they either forget , get excited , or plain just do what they want.
You are supposed to have 75-100' distance for every inch of tube size . Your big cakes might have up to 2 1/4'' and your cans/balls 1.75'' so do the math and peeps already TOO CLOSE right? Yeah yeah too much nagging but burning friends and family is the end result of mistakes - a serious consideration , more so than any of the board plans. I have had low breaks in last 2 shows - no problem or injuries because of distance ! The more product the better chance of low breaks - the more people you put in harms way ..........blah blah blah
Have fun chica bOOm bOOm ..... Just remember hero to zero is an ER trip away.... We taped off fw last time to keep curious back - IF your neighbors are that cool . Get them involved in corrding off no man zone vs viewing area. Think about that as part of your PLAN .

[mjbland05]

Hey good to see you after the fall of pyrouniverse! A good point here - low breaks can happen. I've only had one in five years of many cakes and many mortars, but you don't realize how big some of these breaks are until they go off at 40 feet :eek:.

[apellet]

Hey zzzybil! I was mostly being tongue-in-check about handlighting the finale for the exact reasons you stated! :) We are going to fuse the finale, as well as a few other 500g/200g combos. I've watched some of the videos, and am looking at using perfect fuse for it. If I understand correctly, it's 10sec/ft, so if I have the cakes spaced a foot/ft and a half apart, I'll have a 10-15 delay between each going up. Right?

I already told the guys that they could have a few beers, but that is the limit on alcohol. I'm being anal-retentive on that for the obvious reasons. And I think most of the neighbors will stay in their own yards, as opposed to gathering in the street, so hopefully that'll appease my mind on the distance as well!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts..and yes, it's awesome to see another girl enthusiast in a world that seems dominated by guys! :)

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I already told the guys that they could have a few beers, but that is the limit on alcohol.

With respect... A few beers while lighting fireworks is a few too many. I would strongly encourage you to ask them to wait until after the show to drink ANY alcoholic beverage.

[zzzybil]

And I think most of the neighbors will stay in their own yards, as opposed to gathering in the street, so hopefully that'll appease my mind on the distance as well!

haha NO THEY WON'T ! i slap wore myself out trying to keep people back 2 shows ago ..... It was ridiculous. They are going to be curious and AMAZED . I had to get downright freakin nut job mad- Turned around and saw I had a nephew in law argue with me as he and toddler walked up to couple feet ... Him telling me baby won't touch. Tellin him baby doesn't have to touch - Thats why chairs WAYYYYYYYY OVER THERE.....(i was busy arming the remotes ) turn around and baby and dufuss lookin at'm. After that son in law rigged plastic ''tape/roped off '' using trees and stakes - no man zone. for nx show nye.......
EVERY drunk in the crowd, alllll the kids , allllll the guys will wanna come trip thru your setup - TO SEE watcha got........Its human nature especially if yuh got wayyyyyyy more than they ever seen.
Trust me on that. HOMEDEPO /lowes has construction- wet cement roll plastic tape roll or go to party store and get roll of cheap crepe decoration roll and box of stakes.
Have your sister in law & neighbors set up row of chairs where viewing area is . Let the kids draw chalk lines in street - lol- Up to you to keep it safe. Little bit of forthought will save yuh some grief. Not your house will make it MORE difficult so MORE REASON to have barrier plan at least for set up area. All yuh need is a few stakes and something to ''rope'' it off.........
AND NOBODY drinkin alcohol lights anything !! even you !
Another reason i love cobra - set up before party - continuity check and DONE ...Showered/changed - Yes i had drinks and fired 150'feet away in same viewing area as babies and crowd sittin in lawn chair...That was on me and i had tested the scripting sooooooo many times i had to put new batteries I knew it would fire, Nobody crossed our no man zone. not even me....... after show picked up mods and hosed it. That was nye .....
..... it sucked not drinkin prior show 4th ..... but i didn't . You are nuts if you let anyone drink a few beers then help light anything......SOBER people have a hard time keeping head and hands clear...They just get excited
.... (((( ONE )))) ut ohhhh is all it takes........SAFETY IS ON YOU BABE ! ANYBODY get hurt its your fault......... haha I work in a hospital so I see every kind of accident - and alllllllll of them thought they were safe moments before. $hit happens plan your show with every safety feature , rule , and precaution you can think of. HUMOR your hostess - she's right to be scared - her house - anyone hurt there and they are comming at her. beyond the fact everyone in danger is nearest and dearest friends & family
How you shoot your product , plan effects etc doesn't matter - They crowd will love it. Keepin everyone safe is job 1 .
Give that the thought it deserves......... finish harping !

[apellet]

haha! I always love reading your posts! And you're right...I am being way too optimistic. I have to remember that in prior years we had some fountains and probably 9-10 500g cakes. We're looking at 50+ this year, so yeah....the more it will draw out the curious. I also think that by roping off an area, it will show the neighbors who may not be so keen on the idea that we are taking it very seriously so they will be less likely to complain. Annnd you are the second person to fuss at me for the "few beers"...I had never seen anyone get silly after a small amount of alcohol like that, so again....rampant optimism. lol They are just going to have choose drinking or seeing a kickass show :)