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Rick_In_Tampa
11-19-2017, 10:41 PM
I'm working on a script for next year's July 4th show and I'm wondering how I should enter items that will be fired in series. For example, I have 3 fan slices and 3 flame effects that will be going off at the same time. So I listed the three slices as Mod 1: Cue 1, Mod 1: Cue 2, and Mod 1: Cue 3. Then I listed the three flame effects exactly the same Mod 1: Cue 1, Mod 1: Cue 2, and Mod 1: Cue 3. All 6 line entries have the exact same firing time.

Is this the correct way to do it? I'm afraid I'm going to jack up the script because the line entries are the same and the Cobra isn't going to know what to do.

PyroJoeNEPA
11-20-2017, 12:59 PM
If you are going to use separate cues then MOD 1 CUE 1,THRU 6. all at the same firing times as you said or you could wire a flame pot & slice in series at the module and only use 3 cues.

Rick_In_Tampa
11-20-2017, 05:48 PM
If you are going to use separate cues then MOD 1 CUE 1,THRU 6. all at the same firing times as you said or you could wire a flame pot & slice in series at the module and only use 3 cues.

Wiring them in series is exactly what I plan to do Joe, so one slice and one flame pot will be firing off the same cue. I guess my question is, is it okay to make a line entry for each item in the script showing two things firing off the same mod and cue? Or will that confuse the Cobra and screw up the entire script?? Does that make sense?

Something like this.... Set up on Mods 3, 4, and 5, all on cue 6.

08:36.05s 3 6 7s FanSlice Silver Swirl (30mm)
08:36.05s 4 6 7s FanSlice Silver Swirl (30mm)
08:36.05s 5 6 7s FanSlice Silver Swirl (30mm)
08:36.05s 3 6 Assorted Flames (1sec)
08:36.05s 4 6 Assorted Flames (1sec)
08:36.05s 5 6 Assorted Flames (1sec)

cptnding
11-20-2017, 10:05 PM
Rick,
I'm only on my second year of using the Cobra so I'm no expert but if I remember correctly, I did that once and it worked just fine. Show Creator asked if I did it on purpose when I saved the file. I started just listing the different effects on the same line if I have them on the same cue. Series or parallel. If I have only 2 or 3 matches on the same cue I wire them parallel in most cases. For me it is faster and I have burned through over 1200 MJG igniters with zero failures so I don't worry about getting a false continuity with a bad match wired in parallel. If it happens I may change my mind but splitting all those wires can take a lot of time depending on my setup. I am mostly a one man crew so time is always an issue.
One thing I don't do anymore is put multiple mods on the same channel to have different positions fire at the same time. Makes it complicated to check them from the remote. It's easy to just duplicate a cue in Show Creator and simply change the channel entry for multiple positions.
One problem I have had with Show Creator is inserting a cue into the middle of a script and trying to get it to adjust the time for all the cues following the inserted cue. I have wrecked a script several times attempting to do that. I really wish the program had an "undo" button sometimes.
Back to your original question, you could always make a short script and do a dry run just to see what happens. Always fun to play with the toys.

Rick_In_Tampa
11-20-2017, 10:38 PM
Rick,
I'm only on my second year of using the Cobra so I'm no expert but if I remember correctly, I did that once and it worked just fine. Show Creator asked if I did it on purpose when I saved the file. I started just listing the different effects on the same line if I have them on the same cue. Series or parallel. If I have only 2 or 3 matches on the same cue I wire them parallel in most cases. For me it is faster and I have burned through over 1200 MJG igniters with zero failures so I don't worry about getting a false continuity with a bad match wired in parallel. If it happens I may change my mind but splitting all those wires can take a lot of time depending on my setup. I am mostly a one man crew so time is always an issue.
One thing I don't do anymore is put multiple mods on the same channel to have different positions fire at the same time. Makes it complicated to check them from the remote. It's easy to just duplicate a cue in Show Creator and simply change the channel entry for multiple positions.
One problem I have had with Show Creator is inserting a cue into the middle of a script and trying to get it to adjust the time for all the cues following the inserted cue. I have wrecked a script several times attempting to do that. I really wish the program had an "undo" button sometimes.
Back to your original question, you could always make a short script and do a dry run just to see what happens. Always fun to play with the toys.

I totally get what you're saying. Show Creator is nice, but there are lots of issues that need addressed. Like inserting a cue and getting it to adjust the times as you have described. It's maddening trying to get the cues to line up again after you change just 1 time! Grrr... I feel your pain. I ran everything in series last year (my first year) because I didn't want to risk any false continuity issues. I had 124 cakes wired into 4 mods. Next year I will have 335 cakes and effects wired into 12 mods across three stages (left, center, right). It's going to be a monstrous undertaking so I want to make sure I know what I'm doing. Show Creator turned the duplicate cues red once and asked me if I meant to use the numbers I used. I said no and didn't save the script. I used the same cues again as I described above, and it hasn't turned the numbers red OR asked me if I meant to do that. So I'm not sure if that's good or bad. But I think I'm going to take your advice and test it with a short script just to see what happens. Thanks for the post!

esgrillo
11-21-2017, 10:17 AM
Rick what you show in your script is 100% ok. You can fire all you mods at the same time if you want. Your only limitation will be that you will run out of cues and will have to start doubling, tripling, etc... up. When I have more than one item going off on a cue I add in the comments Left platform, right platform, etc.... That way I know what is going on when I wire in the field. Also Rick there is a shift cues feature that you can shift the time on some or all the cues. Highlight a line(s), right click and you will see that option on the drop down. HUGE timesaver. This is what my script looks like in CSC: (I just finished.....339 cues lmao and I have for special effects a 36M module running four 36P slats and the onboard.... it shoots 5 items for each cue plus another 36M with onboard and 2 slats for the main platforms)

02:21.71s 1 14 Crackling Comet w/ Crackling Mine (40mm) -CM216 5 0 0 CR1 Left & Right
02:21.71s 5 15 Crackling Comet w/ Crackling Mine (40mm) -CM216 5 0 0 CR5 Left & Right
02:23.61s 7 2 3" Red Mine- PFX074 2 0 0 CR1 Center / CR3 Center / CR5 Center
02:24.21s 7 3 3" White Mine - PFS73 2 0 0 CR1 Center / CR3 Center / CR5 Center
02:24.72s 7 4 3" Blue Mine - PFX070 2 0 0 CR1 Center / CR3 Center / CR5 Center
02:26.60s 1 15 Silver Palm Crossette Mine (50mm) - MN230 5 0 0 CR1 Center
02:27.22s 3 16 Silver Palm Crossette Mine (50mm) - MN230 5 0 0 CR3 Center
02:27.72s 5 16 Silver Palm Crossette Mine (50mm) - MN230 5 0 0 CR5 Center
02:29.66s 7 5 36s Z Crackling Mine (8sec)/Red Meteor/Red Min 8 0 0 Cracklin Left & Right Platform 2 fast fused each / Red Meteor CR1 Right
02:30.25s 3 17 Red Meteor/Red Mine - PFX35CMRD 5 0 0 CR3 Right
02:30.73s 5 17 Red Meteor/Red Mine - PFX35CMRD 5 0 0 CR5 Right

Here's how I have the 5 position special effect items set up in CSC:

02:41.69s 12 2 Bump Bear 25.0 0 0 Right - 2 Fast Fused
02:49.94s 13 1 0.5 Sec Fast Blue Flame - PFS102 .5 0 0 SE Platforms 1-5
02:53.03s 13 2 0.5 Sec Red Flame - PFS102 .5 0 0 SE Platforms 1-5
02:56.03s 13 3 0.5 Sec Fast Blue Flame - PFS102 .5 0 0 SE Platforms 1-5
02:59.01s 13 4 0.5 Sec Red Flame - PFS102 .5 0 0 SE Platforms 1-5
03:02.00s 7 6 13 SHOT BLUE BUTTERFLY FAN SLICE - PFX13FR18 5 0 0 Left & Right
03:04.98s 15 1 13 SHOT BLUE BUTTERFLY FAN SLICE - PFX13FR18 5 0 0 Center

esgrillo
11-21-2017, 10:26 AM
Rick... I take back what I said on your script. I looked again and saw you have those duplicate cues. I have never done that so not sure what will happen when you run your script. It will probably run fine but you'll have a real hard time finding duplicate cues when you do them by accident and need to fix those. Happens to me all the time with longer scripts. I believe that error checking function working correctly is worth NOT doing the script as you show it. I would avoid the duplicates and put everything on a cue that goes off at the same time on one line.

PyroJoeNEPA
11-21-2017, 12:33 PM
Ditto with what everyone above said.

Rick_In_Tampa
11-21-2017, 10:59 PM
Sounds good guys. I'm going to have to go back through the script and edit those out. This will be year two of using the Cobra, and I'm just not that familiar with the scripts yet. The fact that I hit the wrong button last year and my script never ran doesn't help either. But what you guys are saying makes sense. I still plan on wiring those items in series, so listing them on one line makes sense. I was just concerned that I wouldn't remember what goes with what once I get in the field. But I can just write the contents in one of the extra fields in the script I suppose. Didn't think of that to be honest.

As for that "shift cues" thing Ed, I'll take a look for that for sure. Sounds like I could have saved myself some time and cursing. :mad:

Rick_In_Tampa
11-21-2017, 11:03 PM
By the way.... 339 cues!!!??? Holy crap. How long have you been working on that?

esgrillo
11-21-2017, 11:28 PM
By the way.... 339 cues!!!??? Holy crap. How long have you been working on that?

About 4 days on and off. Wanted to get it all done before black Friday so I get what I need module & slat wise while they're on sale. Last year I had an oh sh$t moment and ended up buying a couple more 18ms full price in June. Also taking the plunge with slats this year so that should be interesting. I have a lot of mines / comets this year especially in one of the first songs that chewed up a bunch of cues. I am using the theme to Mad Max Fury road and it has a lot of big hits Im trying to time to.

PyroJoeNEPA
11-22-2017, 10:56 AM
I have a lot of mines / comets this year especially in one of the first songs that chewed up a bunch of cues. I am using the theme to Mad Max Fury road and it has a lot of big hits Im trying to time to.

That sounds like an awesome script. Hoping that we get to see video of it after the show---and a couple setup pictures would be nice if you have the time to snap them.

esgrillo
11-22-2017, 11:39 AM
That sounds like an awesome script. Hoping that we get to see video of it after the show---and a couple setup pictures would be nice if you have the time to snap them.

Will do. I always include some set up shots. I have a chicken scratch plan done of the layout now. It should be interesting... looking for as many ways as possible to simplify setup day lol

Rick_In_Tampa
11-22-2017, 04:42 PM
About 4 days on and off. Wanted to get it all done before black Friday so I get what I need module & slat wise while they're on sale. Last year I had an oh sh$t moment and ended up buying a couple more 18ms full price in June. Also taking the plunge with slats this year so that should be interesting. I have a lot of mines / comets this year especially in one of the first songs that chewed up a bunch of cues. I am using the theme to Mad Max Fury road and it has a lot of big hits Im trying to time to.

4 days?! Sheesh... I've been working on mine for 3 weeks!! For the same reason too I might add. Didn't want to miss the boat on the Black Friday special. I worked on it more today and removed all the duplicate cues. Thanks to all once again for that advice. I did have an "oh s--t" moment for another issue though....

I'm desperately trying to get away from using visco. Unfortunately all the strobes and flame pots have visco fuses and no e-match ports. My initial thought was to use talons and replace the slow burning factory fuse with some fast fuse to try and get that instant ignition. That's a lot of work and I might jack it up and half of them not fire. So Ed, I know you still use talons. My question is this. If I use talons and connect them as close as possible to the effect, how long should I set the pre-fire time to in the script? I'm assuming the pre-fire time is the time the cobra will actually light the talon so it goes up at the time indicated in the script, yes?

I hope that makes sense....

Rick_In_Tampa
11-22-2017, 04:53 PM
Will do. I always include some set up shots. I have a chicken scratch plan done of the layout now. It should be interesting... looking for as many ways as possible to simplify setup day lol

How many people do you have to help set up the show on the 4th? Based on the pictures I recall seeing, it looks like the whole neighborhood comes out to help. That's awesome. I'm sure things go a lot faster that way. Just out of curiosity, do you give the helpers cut sheets and say, "go build that!" Or do you use the old "point and direct" method? I came up with an initial layout and I'm debating asking some neighbors to help with the setup this year. My son-in-law helped last year, but he's now becoming my ex-son-in-law. So I need a plan B.

Here's what I have planned so far. All the circles are comets or strobes or flame pots. The show front is only 50' side to side. I'd love to spread things out, but I just don't have the manning or time to run that much scab wire. If anyone has any suggestions to get around that please.... Fire away!!

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esgrillo
11-23-2017, 01:31 AM
How many people do you have to help set up the show on the 4th? Based on the pictures I recall seeing, it looks like the whole neighborhood comes out to help. That's awesome. I'm sure things go a lot faster that way. Just out of curiosity, do you give the helpers cut sheets and say, "go build that!" Or do you use the old "point and direct" method? I came up with an initial layout and I'm debating asking some neighbors to help with the setup this year. My son-in-law helped last year, but he's now becoming my ex-son-in-law. So I need a plan B.

Here's what I have planned so far. All the circles are comets or strobes or flame pots. The show front is only 50' side to side. I'd love to spread things out, but I just don't have the manning or time to run that much scab wire. If anyone has any suggestions to get around that please.... Fire away!!

2758

Regarding the visco on the strobes, I connect the talon as close as possible to the strobe body and in that case assume about 1 sec of delay before it will start firing. With the 76 strobes you can get the talon right against the strobe body so the fuse is really short so I dont assume a lot of time delay for that effect. I dont use the ignitor prefire column in CSC to do that, I just adjust the cue time. Just a preference but you could do it either way.

Your layout is real nice and detailed. I do not go to the cake level detail on the layout but I do print a couple layouts for my set up team. You can see the lay out I did for last year below. I assign tasks that I can easily check the work. I have had problems in the past with cues not firing because my helpers did not connect wires properly going to an effect so I try assign tasks that are repetitive and easy to show how to do and easy for me to check. Those problems have occurred when using scab or wiring a bunch of mines in series. To try and avoid a repeat of that I now tell everyone if there are wired to be connected make sure that when taping the twisted wire connections that each wire is kept separate and not all taped together. It makes checking others work a lot easier.

I do just about all the terminations into a module. I just feel more comfortable with that portion of the process being done by me. It ends up being the bottleneck for the set up but I just deal with it. Allows for more beer breaks for my crew lol.

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